Improve351
Update June 21/07A letter from TransLink was received from Mayor Judy Forster in response to her letter, Improve 351 Campaign has been awaiting word from the Mayor's office regarding permission to post and just received that permission via email yesterday June 20/07. However we have been directed by the Mayor's office to obtain permission from TransLink in order to post. The letter will be posted as soon as we obtain that permission.
Update April 13/07
Here is a copy of the letter that Mayor Judy Forster of White Rock has sent to the Translink board. We will update on any response.
Dear Chair Malcom Brodie & Translink Board Members,
I am contacting you regarding an issue of great importance to the citizens of White Rock: the service provided by the #351 bus, which is virtually the only public transportation option available for those wishing to travel from White Rock to
Although I am fortunate enough to be employed close to home, many other citizens of White Rock work in
I have heard countless grievances about the #351 service, most of which center around two main problems: the frequent tardiness of this bus, and frequent cancellations of service, or “no-shows”. I was shocked to hear of the experiences endured by transit riders on a daily basis: long hours standing in the rain; watching half-empty buses pass them by; waiting an extra hour for their bus and then being forced to stand while traveling; and ending their commute by arriving late to their place of employment. This is unacceptable, particularly considering the taxes that individuals and business pay toward financing the transit system.
The problems with public transportation out of White Rock are now forcing frustrated commuters back into their cars. I like to encourage “green” behavior, and it would be wonderful to see an increase in transit usage, rather than a decrease. Unfortunately, this will not occur until service to and from White Rock is improved.
I am therefore urging Translink to re-evaluate the public transportation system in White Rock, with particular attention to the late and cancelled bus routes and the unrealistic morning rush hour bus service (I have been advised that it currently ends at 7:10 AM out of White Rock). I understand that Translink is attempting to improve our community’s transit by adding two new buses to the rush hour service routes, but I hope the changes will not stop there. As it currently stands, the average person who lives in White Rock and needs to arrive at work on time in
Thank you for considering White Rock’s transportation needs. I look forward to seeing more people in this community leaving their cars at home in favour of an effective and reliable transit system.
Sincerely,
Judy L. Forster,
Mayor
March 19/07
The "Improve the 351 Campaign" has just received support from the municipal/local government level. The Mayor of White Rock is taking a sincere interest in the situation and has agreed to send a letter to TransLink requesting action. Next up... seeking support at the Provinical level.
Update Feb 21/07
Starting in April, TransLink will be adding two buses to the 351 route. The additional buses will run during the morning and evening rush hour. This is a positive first step, and the campaign will continue until the bus system is one we can depend on. Keep your ideas and experiences coming.
Update Feb 03/07
I have been receiving postings from some 351 drivers expressing their frustrations at being blamed for problems that are out of their control . I understand that your shifts are long with short or no breaks and that it must be difficult to deal with complaints from riders on a daily basis. Please understand that the intention of this blog is not against the drivers. The system is failing the commuter's needs period. TransLink needs to relook at the scheduling of the buses they currently have and how to allocate future buses. The success of the "Improve the 351 Campaign" can only improve the driver's situation and we ask for your support. A special thanks go out to the drivers that offered suggestions for improvement, much appreciated.
Jan 31/07, UPDATE:
Regarding the "plan;" I would first like to reassure everyone that yes a plan is in place.
The plan does involve contacting local, regional, provincial and federal members of the government and yes a petition and a meeting will be arranged in the future. Secondly, the "improve the 351" campaign will continue until we get a bus service that we can rely on. The success of the "improve the 351 campaign" counts on steps that will lead to action. If you would like to offer suggestions or volunteer please notify me.
Be advised, I will post all blogs that contain subject matter that is relevant to the goal of this blog. In answer to Kim's comment re:Jan 31 posting; the posting you refer to did have relevant material in the first paragraph and therefore the posting was admitted.
Our "collective voice" can make a difference. Keep those postings coming.
dlr
Nov 19/06
Let us get the message to TransLink:
a late 351 is understandable,
a no show 351 is unacceptable!
If you are as frustrated as I am with repeatedly being late due to a scheduled bus that did not show, then you are ready to be part of the solution. You probably have already put more then a few calls into TransLink asking where the 351 is, only to hear they have no idea; the driver has not called in. You may have even had a nice chat with TransLink's Customer Service Department about the problem. You may have resorted by now to taking an earlier bus adding to your commute time. You may even have changed your work times to commute off rush hour, only to find that the problem is worse due to fewer buses serving the route during that time. I have tried all of these and still no improvement.
So how can we improve the 351? By approaching TransLink with a collective voice!
Post your experiences with a "no show" 351 and suggestions on how to improve the service. Please include your name. I will ensure TransLink sees all relevant postings. I will also ensure that "our collective voice" if required is also taken to members of the government that understands a reliable bus service is key to avoid further traffic congestion in an already fragile infrastructure.
Yes, we are all aware that the RAV line may help with the traffic flow, but that is a few years away and we need improvement now!
I will post updates as progress happens.
What you can do in the meantime; put a call into TransLink's Customer Relations Department each time there is a no show, document the place and time the no show happened and notify the "Improve351" blog. Record the bus number and time you were picked up and notify TransLink.
We can make a difference!
An aside note for future consideration; it perplexes me that we do not have a West Coast Express train serving this side of the lower mainland. Lets utilize the existing train track we already have. Lets utilize the waterway we have. "The powers at be" need to take a trip to other parts of the world to see how how water and trains can be utilized to free up road congestion. The future Canada Line (RAV) out of an already congested Richmond in my opinion is not the answer for commuters out this far. One has to wonder if the amount of time we may save on the RAV line itself will be lost by the bus commute on either end. I have spoken to TransLink about the future of the 351 in respect to the RAV line; lets just say you may see me posting another blog titled "Save the 351."
D.L. Robinson
posted by D.L. Robinson @ 10:31 AM
141 Comments:
Hello,
I am currently living in White Rock and i as well take the 351 to Vancouver. I work two jobs in Vancouver, and i attend school full time. I have been left waiting in many different weather situations such as rain, flooding, and snow. We depend on the buses. I do not think that people like it when buses leave before scheduled times, are rude to us, speed, and many other situations. I like to take the bus and i have to take it to Vancouver until October 2007. I hope that things can improve. Lets get a bus every fifteen minutes on peak hours. The Vancouver bus is a very popular bus. Why don't we make it frequent like the other buses? Every twenty minutes would be convenient. I understand that translink is short staffed right now, but that doesn't mean that translink should leave us out in the cold suffering. It is only going to get colder. Translink is depended on by millions, i think translink should make them happy instead of miserable. The other day when it snowed, i got off of work at seven thirty and rushed to the bus to find out that not only had it not gone by, but it never showed up at all. Four 601's had gone by and no 351's. I decided to ask a driver, and all he could do is snap at me and ask me if i had any patience! I was choked. I was left waiting until nine-thirty in the cold. Two hours in -10 weather while it is snowing isn't very comforting if you ask me.
Thank you for bringing attention to this. I have been seriously inconvenienced by no-show 351's. It is unacceptable that our community is not a priority. It is unacceptable that buses and/or bus drivers are diverted to "more important routes" in Vancouver or other areas while we are stranded. The Electoral District Association meeting of the Green Party is on December 7 at 6:00 at the Semiahmoo Library (1815 152nd St.) Show up and voice your concerns.
Dan
www.greenparty.ca
Join:
https://secure.greenparty.ca/membership.php?origin=Main_Join_Button
I think this blog is way overdue. I've been commuting from White Rock to downtown Vancouver for over 6 years now and have another 20 to go. I think the "no shows' are just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the crappy service we get out in White Rock. I can't count how many 'no shows' I've had to endure. The buses are not only erratic in showing up but are over-full, very poorly temperature regulated, the seats are way too small, run far too infrequently even at peak hours and definitely way too infrequently at non-peak hours. I've been on at least 4 buses that have broken down during the trip - the worst was in the middle of winter during a downpour in the middle of the 99. We waited 2 hours before another bus came and picked us up. As for solutions - we need more buses, more often at least as a starting point. And I can tell you this, if they think they can dump us at the RAV line when it's built and let us all transfer onto skytrain for the rest of the trip - that's when I say screw them and I'm starting to drive again, I don't care if it is more expensive.
HI I like to say is that i too am a 351 customer. And i got to walk down to 351 stop for 20 min, And i agree highly with the first person that rote on that there should be more 351's for ppl that leave far from vancouver. My friend's and I love to ride the 351 but it dose not come offen enoghI belive It can change and if it comes early and leaves on time then People will be happier.
My name is Ray and I also commute between White Rock and Vancouver. The 351 is never on time or it is missed all together and their is never any reason given by the bus driver.I spent $130 every month to be part of the solution and get treated like a third world computer. The busses should run every fifteen minutes during peak times and should be on time unless their are serve weather conditions or a tunnel accident.Buses that do not show up at all is unacceptable and totally inconvenient.
I was on the 351 today leaving at 14:57 from Burrard Sta. There was no room for the bus and the driver had to pull up next to the buses at the stop and shout for passengers. The bus rapidly filled up as we went along until there were 15 passengers standing in the aisle. That left any further passengers standing out in the wet at the hwy 99 exchange in Richmond (for example). The Matthews exchange was bypassed completely. This was in the middle of a normal afternoon and is inexcusible. We need more frequent service. The plan to terminate the 351 route at the new skytrain in Richmond is very ill-conceived. Typical service for the burbs.
Mike - a White Rock retiree
I support everything this group stands for.
I showed up late to my class numerous times because of a lack of acceptable service from translink. I have missed my midterm exam last month because of a double no-show, I had to hike 12 blocks to board the 321 instead. However, this is not the only problem.
It seems that some of the bus drivers are even too lazy to stop if there is only one person at a bus station. The 351 I was to board ran right past me, and its driver WAVED at me. WAVED! I had to run back to my residence, grab a skateboard that I haven't used for six years, and ride all the way down crescent road to king george highway just to catch it. I scraped my knee raw and fixed it with duct tape in the pouring rain, but i boarded the exact same bus that missed me earlier. It was a miracle that i didnt ram my board into the driver's mouth.
Overall my experience with the coast mountain bus company has been... upsetting.
But that's not all.
A friend drives me down to the bus station on steveston and 99 where I take the bus down to Whiterock.
On numerous occasions, I had to wait in excess of two and a half hours for a 351 between 6 and 9 pm. It's fine to be late. It is enraging to leave early and not show up at all. Once on that same stop, a driver opened the doors to me, and shut them in my face just as i was about to board and gunned away.
I am apalled at the "service" as you call it. I understand if it was free for us, but not only do we have to put yup with the drivers, we have to pay 4.50 for one ticket.
I can't say I have had a real problem with 351 no-shows but I certainly can agree with the concern about frequency, and more importantly the fact that these buses (along with their 352 and 354 cousins) are full far too often. We constantly hear about the need to get people out of their cars and onto transit - nothng wrong with that! BUT it won't work if people have to stand all the way to Vancouver from White Rock. Standing might be viable for a few blocks in the city, but not on a long distance run.(I don't believe it could possibly be safe either).
Translink have so many problems to solve that they in general theey simply don't know where to begin.
A few more old fashioned buses would be a good place to start.
As for transferring to Skytrain - RAV when it comes online - that's for another rant!
Last week I arrived at Burrard Station at 7:55pm there was a crowd there already and it was raining of course. It was 9:40 by the time the bus pulled up and the only explanation the driver gave was that the bus was delivered to him late.My question then is :where were
the other busses that should have been there on the half hour??
On top of all this the ride is another hour and a half to cresent beach.
I mean to do my part but I am ready to fire up my 6 cylindar and burn Gas-o-line into the overcrowded streets of vancouver.
I've lived in White Rock since 1990 and have commuted downtown for the past 16 years, mainly by bus. The bus service has become progressively worse over this time, more so during the past two years. Increased growth in our area has not been met with a comparable increase in bus service. Witness the new Park and Ride. It should be called the Park and Stand. I have complained many times to Translink and I'm sure they know me well but nothing happens. I have a serious problem at least once per week. Just last night I was fortunate to be at Granville and Broadway waiting for the 7:31pm 351 from Burrard Station and the bus happens to come around the corner from Broadway empty! The driver proceeds to tell one of the 5 of us who boarded his bus that he is the 7:31pm running late so he turned around at Broadway. What about the poor folks downtown waiting for this no show bus? Too bad. This happened to me last week and about 20 of us were picked up by an empty 601 (they never seem full and sometimes you see two of them travelling together!)and the driver told us that the 351 would be waiting for us at Broadway. He was not. He had taken off just like our driver last night. We all stood around freezing waiting another 30 mins for the next bus and then we had to stand!
I could go on and on about the problems with the bus service out of White Rock but we need to champion change. We need a 351 to leave White Rock Centre every 15 minutes from 7:52am to 9:52am. This would mean another 4 buses during that 2 hour period. Not such a big deal I would think. We also need to add another 352 and 354 in the morning after the current last one. This should ease the congestion and standing at the Park and Stand between 7:10am and 7:30am. Also how about having a bus or two that actually originates at the Park and Stand.
With regard to the evening, I think they should run every 20 minutes after 6:30pm. This would mean just one extra bus per hour.
Where do these extra buses come from. Buy them or take them from the less busy routes (the 601 is a prime example of this).
Over the years I have made many friends and aquaintances on the bus and without exception they consider the present service from White Rock to Downtown and Return to be woefully inadequate as well as being totally unreliable.
Of course the real big picture solution would be to have a train service as someone else as recommended.
I have a few more years left of commuting and I hope they will be better than the last few. I do not even want to think about all of us being dropped off in Richmond to connect to Downtown from there! What a nightmare that will be!
Thank you for the opportunity to contribute to this blog.
I drive the weekday 351 from 5:30am to 1:30pm. One of the major problems I face is traffic density. As in many other suburban areas, large scale local development has occurred before any infrastructure has been put into place to accommodate the extra traffic. Often, we start lining up for the Vancouver run on the King George/Hwy 99 overpass! It's bumper to bumper traffic to the far side of Oak St. Bridge, despite a "short cut" via Shell Rd. in Richmond that a lot of drivers elect to take. I often loose 1/2 hr or more to Burrard Station. In order to get back on time, our transit control, which we are always in touch by phone, has the coach "short turn" or return to White Rock Centre, eliminating the Crescent Beach to White Rock Centre portion. This causes up to 1 hr+ lack of service along that portion of the route. I have talked to other drivers, and they all go through the same experience.
In order to try to accommodate as many of the passengers as possible waiting in White Rock, I’ve used every “band aid” solution possible, including transferring everybody at Massey Tunnel to the 601, at Broadway to local buses, so that I can get back to Crescent Beach. Most on board passengers understand the logic and put up with the disruption, but of course a few verbally show their displeasure, which is understandable.
One solution would be for Trans Link to provide a local coach between Crescent Beach & White Rock Centre. The regular 351 would start/end in White Rock Centre. This would probably solve some of the scheduling problems & also allow the drivers a small break. We too face the problem of only getting one 10 min break throughout an eight hour shift.
I agree, that to some, the choice comes down to waiting, often in inclement weather for buses running unreasonably late, standing in the aisle for 1 hr. + due to lack of space, being transferred before arriving at the destination they paid to reach, OR driving themselves. The later is probably not quicker or cheaper, but a seat is always guaranteed, they can listen to the CD player and they don’t have to ask the driver to turn the heat off/on.
No changes to the status quo will happen, unless you voice your disapproval of the lack of service to your local and provincial politicians. Write. Phone. Email.
Don’t get me going about the lack of snow removal from bus stops.
hello.
I also live in White Rock and have given up using my vehicle to travel downtown.I simply cannot understand why on a Saturday night the return from downtown is only every hour from 6pm. Is does not make any sense not to have a half hourly service at this time. The buses are not only crowded, people are angry and frustrated from waiting in the cold and wet. It is no way to run a Public Bus service that takes an hour and a half from downtown to W/R.
No wonder people are forced back into their cars.
I also do not understand why there is no regular train service out this way, again it makes no sense, what is it about our Transport system that does not want to even consider rail services common to most countries of the world. What about a fast ferry service, use the waterways, do SOMETHING.
Ah well, back to the car.
Richard Winn
Further to my earlier post perhaps it is time for people in White Rock/South Surrey to be looking at an alternative Private Express Coach service to downtown Vancouver. The fact is no matter how much we complain to Translink about the 351, due to the Canada Line we are on a hiding to nothing. They are simply not going to consider a comfortable service for us out here, their priorities are always going to be the downtown core and we will always be second class. There is absolutely no way on earth I would consider going downtown to a concert or whatever and then catching the Canada Line to Bridgeport and then switching to a crowded bus to bring myself and my wife home late at night, its bad enough right now with out of control, rowdy, swearing kids on the later buses. Its wrong and it is unfair. the monopoly should be changed and a Private, comfortable service allowed to operate to serve us, the paying customer. Get the coffee on.
For the past year I since I decided to switch from car to bus, I have been taking this route. I live in Vancouver, and work at 19, & king George. There have been many times on both directions where the 351 has been late, or just not showed. It is extremely frustrationg when I call translink info to get information on why the delay, and there is no explanation.
A note of caution.
TransLink & Coast Mountain Bus Co. are being bombarded with complaints about the 351 bus service, or lack thereof. They may agree to “monitor” the situation and release data on some future date.
Like all statistics, the source of the numbers can be used in an advantageous fashion. We went through a similar exercise on the Main St. route years ago. Transit sends out route checkers, who monitor arrival/ departure times of the buses at various points along their route, and record the approx. passenger loads. The big question is WHEN they perform this task. The 351 will have a period between now and the end of the Xmas holidays where the service situation will improve, mainly because schools, colleges and UBC/ Simon Fraser universities will be closed. The same holds true for the summer months. During these times, the traffic density and passenger loads are greatly reduced, and the buses maintain their schedules fairly well. If all the statistics are gathered during this quieter period, TransLink will pronounce the 351 service within acceptable limits, and no changes will be made.
They are hoping that they can continue the 351 service within the current budget allocations until the Canada Line (RAV) is operational, complaints not withstanding. At that time, TransLink plans are to terminate all northbound suburban services at the Richmond River Rock Casino park & ride, at which point everyone will transfer to the SkyTrain to complete their trip. Their thinking is that this will free up huge amounts of “bus time” without any added costs. This will effect the 351, 352, 354, 311, 601, 602, 603, 604 routes. Richmond passengers, who currently enjoy downtown service, will face a similar change.
With the Canada Line (RAV) acting like a giant money vacuum cleaner, TransLink is rather hardened to complaints about any bus service that will add to their budgetary woes. You are not alone in voicing your displeasures to them. Riders along the Broadway corridor put up with “pass ups” and overcrowding that makes the White Rock situation rather mild by comparison. If you want improvements to the 351 service between now and the actual operation of the Canada Line, you will have to vehemently lobby your politicians, both on the municipal and provincial level.
And watch those damned statistics!
Hi.
I too have been caught a number of times with no show buses and rude drivers. the service itself is poor, not frequent enough and often full so that people are expected to stand both ways for well over an hour on an uncomfortable either overheated or freezing cold bus going mainly down the highway,cannot possibly be safe.
also the buses are badly desighned for this route, many people carrying backpacks or taking suitcases from White Rock and south surrey to get to the airport or the ferry have simply no where to put them. The overhead storage compartments are a complete joke and rarely if ever used. The seating is uncomfortable and very confined for long journeys. Very very poor. doubt it will change though with the new rapid transit line coming I think we will go from second class customers to third class. This company does not really pay any attention to the suberbs and yet asks us not to use our cars.
Its a joke.Privatise the thing.
I was standing again from the "Park and Stand" this morning on the 8:15 am from White Rock Centre.
How about those of us who are forced to stand only paying half price? $2.25 instead of $4.50.
After all, standing room only tickets are always cheaper at events.
The company is in denial. Just this morning my driver got out on the stop at 152nd and george and removed one of the posters advertising this group. Its time for a second public transit company
I am upset with not only the bus service, but the new trip time too.
It used to be three hours, now I only have half of that.
The bus itself takes 1.5 hours to get to vancouver, then I have to make a transfer to the skytrain and get on another bus. Just this morning, The driver of the 025 at 12:36 yelled and verbally harassed me at nanaimo bay 2 because I demanded to continue the trip with a ticket that only expired 6 mintues earlier. He told me it's only 3.25 for the extra ticket. I did not have money with me and thus had to disembark from the bus to use my debit card.
Only 3.25 extra?
I paid 4.50 for the ticket there, now todays fare added up to 7.75.
This is unnaceptable. Not only did I have to pay extra money, But I showed up late to a final exam because the arrogance of one driver trained by the bus company.
VANCOUVER'S BUS SYSTEM IS AN EMBERASSEMENT OF "OLYMPIC" PROPORTIONS.
Same old crap.
The 7:00pm 351 from Burrard Station was a no show last night, but two 601's rolled by 15 minutes apart and the second one was empty.
I complained as usual and was told that it would be sent to the supervisor (where nothing will happen as usual.
Yours in miserable transit,
This blog is over due. I take the 351 to and from vancouver-whitrock every sunday. Back in September the bus was at least 15 min late every single time! And a few times it never came.
As well, sometimes i take the bus from ocean park and its 10 min EARLY!! now whats that, how many people arrive that early.
Once when it didn't come a friend of mine was waiting at the bus stop. He planned on catching the bus prior, it didn't come either!
When a bus only comes once an hour, they should make sure it is there.
Jeff
i also use the 351 everyday. i have just moved out to white rock about 4 months ago now. the 1st time i ever went to catch this bus i waited for a hour and a half. and ever sence then the schedual has been crazy. i cant get anywere i need in time. and i always miss the bus that i had a connection with. so after waiting half an hour or more for the 351 i end up at white rock center waiting for my bus for another house just cause the stupid 351 was late. there for it makes me late for work and appointments. i mean i can understand if the bus is a little late coming from vancover cause that is a long drive and it all depends on traffic and what not. but the bus leaveing from ocean park when im like 20 mins down the road from there i really dont see how that works? its bullshit. well GOOD LUCK with this who ever is trying to fix this problem. i really hope you get somewhere :)
And I thought it was just me!
Mayor 'Judy' ... 'Listen up'
Your citizens have spoken.
This is one for you.
Show that you deserve your raise.
Do something. Now.
They just put in a new bus line: 375 straight to guildford from white rock center, leaving every half hour. It's to take the stress off an already lax route.
ARE YOU F@&#!$G SERIOUS?
Change this useless new bus line no one's using to extra 351's! We need them more than a route to guildford. We already have the 321 345 and 323 for that.
Hi there,
Yes, I agree with all of the comments regarding the worsening condition of the translink busroutes out to suburban areas. In fact, I'd like to make a proposal that we extend this complaint to include Delta and the 601 South Delta line as well (this should also include the 602, 603, 604 Tsaw. buses). I'm a Delta resident who has been riding the express service to/from Vancouver - South Delta for over 5 years and the bus service has become more scattered and unreliable - particularly coming from Vancouver. During the recent snow storm, I suffered with other stranded 351 bus riders as neither a delta or white rock bus showed up for over 3hrs to pick us up from the stop outside the vag. This is unacceptable, we cannot be left to fend for ourselves with no way to get to our homes. I cannot afford a car, so I continue to ride in to work, and I've had to re-schedule my work times to leave at the crunch 5-6pm time to ensure I get a bus, since the last few months, buses have been leaving about 10-15min earlier than they are scheduled to. 1 or 2 buses an hour is unacceptable - particularly during the weekend when many of us have weekend committments downtown. I challenge all of my fellow Delta residents to not hold back and save the "601" as well as the 351, because we will be the losers when the RAV comes in if we don't do something now.
I live close to the 351 bus stop Oxford/Thrift. When I moved here and looked at the bus schedule, I thought this would be a great route if I have to go downtown out of rush hour or Sunday. Direct, decent bus takes you right into downtown. Well, that's about it. If you want to go anywhere else than downtown, you are out of luck. I work at the airport and I would take the bus if there would be better options. But first of all, I have to pay 4.50 although my final destination is within two zones. I have to cross the Oak street bridge which is terrible during rush hour. Then switch on 70th and Granville to go back to the Airport Station via Arthur Laing. There another switch to the airport bus. The whole trip takes about 1.5 hours or more, depending on how long I have to wait in the rain/snow/wind/cold for the next late bus. So this is an unacceptable alternative and I almost forced to use my car. Anyhow, I took the bus during the snow days recently. It took me 2-3 hours, each way. On some day the ticket has expired due to bad traffic and I had to fight not to pay again! Anyways, there should be another blog about public transit from the international airport... the sky train should have been built there 20 years ago...
I understand the delays with the 351 bus. Public transit with busses has always to deal with traffic. And this is way there should be an alternative. Sky Trains are great, but only if you live close to a station. But why does an area with this population only have two sky trainlines (or soon 3)??? I grew up in Europe where public transportation is much better than in North America. European cities use trains, trams and subways. They don't have to bother with road traffic and everything is on time. Why not have a system like that? There should be sky train lines connecting every major neighbourhood, and then you can use local busses to feed the stations. But with the current speed, there will be a new sky train line every 10 years or so... I understand that it costs a lot of money to build and operate sky trains, but think about the environment and how many people would switch to public transportation if there would be a good alternative. Until then, we need more 351 during rush hour (standing in a bus from WR to DT is unacceptable), better connections and busses that are on time. Maybe Translink should implement some waiting times on certain spots where they can catch up with the current schedule.
Pascal
9pm to White Rock was a no-show last night. This never used to happen but the last year especially has gotten far worse.
We are now facing a typical 1.5 hour trip to Burrard each way. This is about 30 mins longer than just driving yourself but it is still borderline acceptable considering you can relax on the bus.
I am very fearful about the plan to have all southern busses terminate at the richmond skytrain. This will likely add anohter 30 minutes to the total trip but guess what... now we're going to stand up for the last hour of the trip. What are the odds that a train won't be packed to the gills after working its way through richmond.
If taking transit makes my commute twice as long AND I have to stand for half of that trip (not counting waiting at the side of the road time) then guess what. I'll be driving. CMB will probably view this as a good thing (busses less full so problem solved right?).
Here's another suggestion... how about
1) extending the HOV lane farther south before the tunnel (does anyone remember backups at the WR end of Hwy 99 before this year?)
2) putting an HOV lane next to the fast lane leading up to the Oak St bridge. The tunnel isn't nearly the bottleneck that Oak St. is.
3) NOT terminating WR express busses at the Richmond skytrain station.
4) extend the transfer deadline for bus tickets. You can no longer get from one end of the system to the other on one ticket. I've never been challenged on this yet but there is no way in heck that I would put another dime in for an exceeded ticket time limit.
Do I sound bitter?
I grew up in white rock and would love to stay but the commute is killing me.
extremely dissapointed with the 351's inconsistancy
My name is Linda and I too use the 351 and have done so for the last 5 years. I have also found the service to be terribly inadequate with busses running late or not showing up at all in both directions. I usually take the 351 that leaves White Rock Centre at 6:20 AM and I have been fortunate enough to always get a seat,( I have very bad knees and could not bear to stand for an hour or more) but by the time it gets further down the road to King George and 24th the bus is often full and at standing room only! This also applies to the bus that leaves White Rock Centre at 6:00 AM too! I feel sorry for the people at the Park and Ride/Stand, as they already know there is little chance of getting a seat by the time the 351 or 354 arrive. There is no excuse for this! No one should have to pay $4.50 to stand all the way to Vancouver or from Vancouver to White Rock later in the day. There should be 15 minute service during rush hour in the morning and evening from both ends. Surely Translink must realize from the complaints they have recieved that the service is inadequate as the population in South Surrey has grown by leaps and bounds. Why did they build a new park and ride if they didn't think they would need it to accomodate all the 351/354 users? They knew the old park and ride was over crowded with cars double parked and parking in no park zones and almost anywhere they could including the grass. Now they have this park and ride that can comfortably accomodate 2 to 3 times as many vehicles but they are not providing enough busses for the amount of riders they have expanded the park and ride for! What were they thinking?! No wonder people are going back to their cars. I would too if I had one! We have all been late for work too many times and taking an earlier bus to account for extra travel time is not the solution. I already have to get up at 4 am in order to be ready to catch one of the community busses to get me to White Rock Centre. If I have to get up any earlier to make up for late or no show 351's then I may as well stay up all night or get a room downtown and send the bill to Translink!
I feel sorry for the drivers too as they take the brunt of the complaints and are stressed out and frustrated at not being able to provide the service that is expected of them. They have very little or no down time for a break and often eat on run. Some are great, while others have become jaded, belligerent and rude. No wonder they can't seem to hire enough new drivers! Who would want to work for a company that has no respect for it's Transit operators nevermind the public they serve!
In addition, I, along with many other riders I have spoken to, are incensed at the inane idea of being off loaded like cattle in Richmond to catch the RAV line then off loaded again in Vancouver only to have to wait for another bus to transfer to our destination. What purpose does that serve? They certainly did not poll the ridership when they came up with that idea! It will not decrease the travel time from White Rock, in fact it will probably take longer and inconvenience everyone with having to get on and off three or more times. What about the riders that have mobility problems and depend on only having to get on the one bus? If they choose to discontinue the Express 351 to and from Vancouver there will most certainly be a revolt! Have any of the people who made this decision taken the time to get out of their respective Mercedes/ Lexus/ Acura or whatever to actually ride a bus
or skytrain and see what it is like? If they or their family members had to endure standing in the wind, rain, snow and freezing temperatures and then get onto an already overcrowded, over or under heated bus and stand or worse be passed by because the bus is "Full", perhaps they would re-think this nightmare. The whole system has gone down the toilet since Tranlink took over. It's time to give it back to BC Transit. For a city that is supposed to be world class it's public transport system is severly behind the times and an embarassment. We deserve better that!
There have been far to many cases of the 351 not showing up and i mean far to many. Infact just a couple of days ago i was left stranded downtown in the unbarably cold weather due to the fact that the 11.20 bus didnt show up, it is completely unnaceptable and unfare to the people.
I too take the 351 from white rock center to downtown vancouver and I have to say that the service is terrible and some of the driver's are so rude its really hard not to say anything to them in regards to their attitudes.I have called in to complain to translink many times only to hear that there is nothing that can be done.The driver's have taken it upon themselves to make their own schedules it seems as translink often at times have no idea where the bus is and cant seem to get a hold of the driver or a supervisor.That to me is crap.Whoever is running translink does not know how to run the company or to even budget..for us who live out in the suburbs we pay the most and get the least service,that needs to change.for the 351 and 354 and 352 they should be running those buses every ten minutes through rush hour there should be no excuses for late buses or missing buses.The other thought I had on this is I hear from the driver's themselves that they are doing different runs during the day so for example driver stars out as a 351/354 or 352 then after the mornign rush it is now all of a sudden a 601/602/603/or 604 when rush hour comes along again then all of a sudden some of those buses are turned back into the 351's,352's or 354's and they use that as an excuse by the drivers.This is no longer acceptable the white rock and south surrey area is growing fast and yet translink has done nothing to grow with it..this whole rav line transfer thing is unacceptable quit trying to make my day longer than it already is...i feel sorry for the seniors who think that they will be able to take an express bus to downtown vancouver once the rav line is in they will be the ones confused and as usual no one will be there to assist them accept the public.I think that we should stop paying the huge fare that we have to pay to be "privelged" to ride the bus.That is how translink treats us yet they forget that a part of our fares go to pay their wages.if we all stopped paying them these horrible fares...then what would they dofor themselves? get people in there that know what they are doing and over haul the system so that it does work for all of us who either choose to or have to ride the bus downtown!!!!
Hello,
I am a UBC student who takes the 351 to school every day and I can honestly say I have seen it all. I have waited in the pouring rain or as of recently, snow. I have endured rude drivers, drivers who have sped (and not just a little) and I think the other day my bus may have rear ended a car and didn't stop.
I have two major issues with the 351:
1) Frequency and Timing: I can not begin to count how many times I have been standing on the 99B-Line at the corner of Broadway and Granville just to see a 351 fly by, pick up a few people and leave. It is unbelievably frustrating to know you have just missed one bus and another one will not be there for another half an hour, if you're lucky and they're running on time. I would love to see the frequency of the 351 increased so passengers are not stranded on a cold wet street corner for half an hour or more (usually a lot longer than half an hour).
2) Overcrowded Buses: I do not understand, and my entire family will agree with this, how transit staff and organizers can believe it is safe to STAND on a bus while it travels down a highway at speeds of upwards 90 - 100 km/hour. I am 5'4" tall and I can not reach the overhead handles without great difficulty so I am forced to annoy the person in front of me by holding on to the back of his or her seat. I don't know how many times the bus has made a sudden stop and I've pulled a muscle in my shoulder or crashed into the person infront of me. And that was just a sudden stop, imagine an accident!I purposely try to get on the bus at Granville and Broadway during peak times because I may have a faint glimmer of a hope to have a seat. If I were to get on at King Edward, 41st, or 49th, I would be standing all the time.
I depend on the transit system and will for the next 3 years. I am so frustrated with the system though that I have considered moving into residence at UBC to escape my ugly daily commute. I am living at home to save money but the stress to take the bus everyday is getting to me. The province of BC and the federal government pushes us to use transit for our environment and to save money but I challenge any politician to stand in the rain for an hour only to get on a full bus and have to stand in rush hour traffic over the Oak street bridge and through the Massey Tunnel for at least an hour's worth of a commute. I challenge that politician to do that for a whole week and to see exactly what many of us have been enduring for years. If the governments were really that interested in people taking transit they would at least make it bearable for us. Right now, I do anything to avoid a trip on the 351.
Thank you for setting up this site!
Diana
Hello There,
I take 351 bus everyday. I depend on 351 bus a lot. Most of the time i get off at White Rock Centre, and then get on a different bus. It used to be so convenient to get off 351 bus, and transfer on another bus until this year. I don't know who decides where each bus should stop but a lot of people take 351 bus actually from my house it's the only bus that comes. Anyways this year they have put 351 bus in the end and C buses the little buses front, but more people ride 351. My point is when 351 bus was in front of all buses the other buses could see it and wait for people to get off and get on their bus or other way around, but now like the other day i was going to get off 351 bus in White Rock centre and i had to run for 394 bus, but 394 bus didn't even see 351 bus behind and just left. I noticed a lot people now ruining to 351 cause it's a little too far now and other buses cant see it. I know a lot of people would agree with me on this one my friends do and i have talked to few people who take 351 and they agree. Why put the most used bus in the back?
Julia
Hello,
I am a reporter at the Peace Arch News. I am working on a story about this site and the petition. Could some of you please call me this afternoon (Thursday) or early Friday morning, as I need a bit more information about your troubles? 604-531-1711.
Thanks,
Brooke Larsen
Peace Arch News
I agree with everyone. I think they need more 351,352,394 and 345 in the morning but also they need a longer run of 394 and 345 after 6:15pm. Sometimes there is so many people at the skytrain and i can't make it to the train so i have to wait for next one and then i cannot make it for 345 or 394 last one and i have to go and wait for 321 and that takes way longer.
When they cancel 394 and 345 they should put a notice on the bus stop. Other wise people wait and wait and then they are late. It had happen to me a lot. I am sure it happens with other buses too.
On Monday Jan.22 there was no bus to Vancouver from Creshent Beach at 10.30 or 11 a.m. Everybody were waiting in cold weather, under the rain for about 1 hour...
Hello,
I am living in Vancouver and I work in White Rock. I strongly support you. I have many experiences for no-show 351. We also need more buses in early morning and later afternoon after 6 pm.
there's times when i don't even bother going straight out to my bus stop after school because i know that:
a.) it'll be retardely full
b.) it probably won't stop
c.) it will be really late
d.) it might not even show up at all
it's frustrating for me cause i really just want to get home after being at langara for almost 10 hours. it's not so bad leaving white rock going to vancouver but coming home it's just a joke
My name is Jennifer and I've been riding the 351 for 4 years communting to UBC and work in Vancouver from White Rock and recently i made the switch and am now living in Vancouver and commuting to White Rock. I am now working a shift that is from 2:30 to 8:30 and my route requires 1 transfer to a White Rock shuttle. In the last 6 months my bus going home at 8:30 was cancelled and the next bus was not for an hour. Me and the few other people that take that bus from that stop called to ask what was going on and they had nothing to tell us, in fact the person we spoke to was quite rude to us and basically said, "too bad!" I took another route home via the 321 and sky train which added an hour to my commute so regardless i was an hour later home that night. And this has happened two more times since then. In 6 months! 3 times! Especially at that time of night
As well the bus is so frequently late i often miss my transfer and am late for work. This happens at leat 1 out of 4 trips to white rock.
The 351 is not the only route that is in dire need of an upgrade. I spent two hours waiting in the rain about a week ago for a 480 to UBC that was not full. 4 went by but the drivers did not stop. And when i called translink to ask what they were doing about it they said, "there is nothing we can do about full buses!" So not only did i miss my class but the 20-25 people standing at the stop with me were 2 hours late as well.
More buses is essential, and i also think that they should have buses and drivers on call for when there are breakdowns on route so that people are not stranded and then crammed onto the next scheduled bus. And they need to learn the schedule so that people aren't waiting at stops for longer than necessary. i understand that traffic can get in the way and they need to work those things into their schedules otherwise they are useless! Many times i will approching a stop and see not one but two of the same buses go by and then not see another for twice the time i should. One more thought, the bunch the 351, 352 and 354 all together so that they are 2 minutes apart, then there is 20min-30min of no buses... most of us use those buses to get to the park and ride so how baout spreading them out?
Hi,
Everytime I call translink from my cell it takes forever to wait and then what about my minutes and coasting me? Everytime it's bad weather the translink line just busy till the end of the day. What kind of service is that?
Hello,
Once i called translink and the lady told me to wait she didn't have her glasses on and she told me a whole story how she can't see with out her glasses. While i was waiting for her to find them and almost was late for my bus.
I am a fulltime student and it takes me about four hours a day of commuting (worst case scenario) from White Rock to UBC.
The number of times the 351 has been late, or not shown up at all, have been enumerable. The drivers are generally unaware or rude.
Jan26/07: First I'll set aside the unusual snow and storm scenarios (tho I agree they should be handled much better & have been caught in them myself!)
Having taken the bus from S.Surrey for over 12 yrs now (& over 30 yrs in general), I agree with other long-time riders that the bus situation has greatly worsened, especially this past year or so. It seems as though a threshold was reached this fall (when Hwy 99 congestion really hit in early a.m. from 32nd Ave, down past KGHwy). How many more 1000's of people now reside along the 152St - 32nd Ave corrdiors (and elswhere). Transit hasn't kept up & we riders suffer.
It is all buses (351,2,4) & I agree with the responder about adding specific extras to all 3 lines, plus buses straight from the P&R.
Having ridden for years on the old predecessor GMC buses, I also agree that when Transit buys new buses, to make sure there is more leg room (at least 1 less row), & make a useful upper rack.
To gather stats, I suggest a quick, cheap snapshot - have the driver write the {bus, direction, time, & # of people standing} just before they leave the P&R heading North; & Oak & 70th, heading S. After 2 weeks we'd know when & how bad the bottleneck's are.
Re: RAV - funelling into a RAV line is ivory-tower bureaucracy at its worst!! They have no clue how much worse that will make a commute!
Finally - thanks to the bus driver who wrote on this blog - very helpful to know how you get squeezed in the middle!
My husband and I arrived at the Park and Ride on 26th January in plenty of time to catch the 11.23 a.m. 351 bus to Vancouver. The bus did not arrive (or if it arrived early it did not wait until its scheduled time). We debated whether or not to get back into the car and drive in, but at ages 91 and 83 decided it would be better and safer to wait for the next bus. The 11.51 arrived almost 15 minutes late and, of course, it was standing room only.
We opted to cancel the appointment we had and go back home to thaw out, rather than stand all the way into Vancouver. This was not a bad weather day - a little foggy perhaps, but no ice and snow to cause transit problems. If Translink really wants to get people out of their cars and into buses they have to provide better service to cope with the big increase in population in the South Surrey area. No-one is going to risk taking the bus if they can't guarantee they will get to their destination on time, particularly if their job depends on their getting to work on time.
Hi everyone!
I find it a pain to get to Vancouver from White Rock Centre using the 351. When it doesn't show up, it makes my trip more stressful.
One additional note. I think that Translink should improve not only the 351, but the 354 and the 352 as well. (That would be rapid transit!)
If it were for the 351/354 service in the afternoon I would suggest Translink change its name to "Sorry Bus Full Inc.". The service is pathetic, especially if you try to catch the bus beyond 41st Ave. And it is not cheap either.
I do not agree with Arthur. The few problems listed in this BLOG are NOT the tip of the iceberg. But yes, there are a handful of issues/problems.
I would like to add a comment about commuting in the other direction - from downtown to White Rock. There have been countless times when the bus scheduled to leave the Burrard bus loop at 5:21pm, 5:37pm and 5:56pm do not show up! It is likely this bus is a connector from some other route and any delays in that route cascade onto the 351. This needs to change! Translink needs to revisit their scheduling more so that worrying about more vehicles. I don't even care if it's not a coach bus, just send some sort of mass passenger vehicle at the scheduled time!
Another solution translink is thinking of is to use one of those "accordian-type" buses like those used to Richmond and UBC.
I am also a driver for CMBC and I drive the #351 4 days a week.
Please understand that we as drivers 'are not' arbitrarily deciding not to show up at a scheduled time. When we are late, we call in and ask for direction from a supervisor. Sometimes that direction includes a 'short turn' in order to get the bus back on time. It 'is' unfortunate that part of the run is missed and no driver takes pleasure in that fact. 'In fact', each property has a service committee composed of company and union representatives, that attempts to address issues that affect a route suffering a lack of running time. Many times the answer is the same, "There is no money to provide that level of service."
It is frustrating for the drivers and some do get very angry about it. For those of you who have experienced a level of 'rudeness' on the part of the driver, I might suggest that it is this level of frustration coming out. Imagine the daily pressure of trying to meet an unrealistic schedule. A schedule that could be improved if Translink should bother to put the same amount of emphasis on the bus system as it does on building outdated technology like Skytrain.
And speaking of Skytrain, good luck on your efforts to have this suburban service continue all the way downtown. Don't forget, Translink has entered into an agreement with a 'private partner' (the infamous P3), to run the Canada Line and the private partner has been guaranteed 100,000 riders a day or Translink goes into a penalty phase and has to make up the difference to this said private partner. Translink is going to make sure that the Canada Line (RAV), is force fed riders by every route running south of the Oak Street bridge in order to make that 100,000 total.
Rest assured, most drivers are just as choked about the lack of attention paid to these insufficient running times. Many feel pressured to exceed the speed limit in order to meet or at least get close to these times (just like you, on your job, we would enjoy a break at the end of the line.) Unfortunately, no matter what speed we may drive at, the traffic itself is a major hurdle.
Drivers are just as concerned as the passengers at the lack of equipment and running time, that would allow us to properly provide the service as scheduled.
In a recent internal union letter, Jim Houlahan, bus driver's union VP said regarding poor service: (explanation & amplification in parentheses)
Surrey (Depot)continues to have serious problems on the road as they are canceling 11 pieces (Rush Hour Special buses) each morning and 8 per afternoon, and that is on routes with 30 and 15 minute headways( Space between buses on the same run). Never mind a zero spare ratio (no buses to replace breakdowns), they can’t even meet the service profile (The current minimum number of buses that are supposed to be on the road). This has been ongoing since at least Oct./Nov. RTC (Richmond Depot) may be the only depot with a few spares and not canceling work on a regular basis due to vehicle shortages. Vancouver (Depot) the numbers are over the top some as days there over 50 cancellations due to a combination of vehicle and operator shortages. And there is no relief coming at least until Sept. 07 when some of this year’s bus order arrives and hits the road. As we have said in the press, too little, too late.
So the problem is: no money for buses but plenty for RAV, Skytrain, and the new GVTA Police. Guns, body armour, and now Tasers. What's next, their own lockup? CSI Division?
I commute weekdays (5:30am) and from downtown (4pm) back to White Rock. I am appalled at the service I receive for the $130 monthly pass I purchase.
The seats are way too small, the service (late, missed pickups, and slow slow drivers) unacceptable, drivers are mostly nice but there is this one woman driver who is a loud mouth bitch. She packs people in each morning then gets into an argument with passengers when they are trying to get off saying that nect time they should have stayed at the front. She should realize her only job is to drive and serve her customers, the people who pay her should be treated properly. I hope Translink fires her.
Translink needs to increase service times to improve service and safety. People being required to stand for the whole trip on the HWY is a major safety risk. Last week, in the AM, the bus stopped short and a few older ladies standing nearly fell over and it is only a matter of time before someone is seriously hurt, injured or disabled. I can see someone going right thorugh the front window with so many people jammed in there required to stand, or of course they could stand outside for an hour or more, because we all know the buses are never on time. The drivers are not the problem, we need more buses, more service times and I WOULD BE WILLING TO PAY MORE TO GET THIS. Hello - Translink - here's a great business opportunity - Provide more buses and charge more and I bet out in WR that these buses will continue to be full an very very profitable...........that's assuming that you translink are profit oriented and not another poorly run govt agency that is run by a bunch of overpaid bureaucrats.
[QUOTE]...drivers are mostly nice but there is this one woman driver who is a loud mouth bitch. She packs people in each morning then gets into an argument with passengers when they are trying to get off saying that nect time they should have stayed at the front. She should realize her only job is to drive and serve her customers, the people who pay her should be treated properly. I hope Translink fires her.[/QUOTE]
The stresses of the job can affect all people differently. Sounds like the Sister needs a break, the demands of this grueling run may be causing her to react in what is not the norm for her.
I for one, will give her the benefit of the doubt and hope that she can find it within herself to speak to someone about the run in order to attempt to eliminate the stress(es).
As for her being fired.... I only hope you 'always' have employ that is stress free and that if your employer or customers catch you having a 'bad day', that they don't over-react and seek to terminate your position. That would be wrong. Especially if it is in the realm of the company's responsibility that caused you the stress.
JULIA said:
[QUOTE]I take 351 bus everyday. I depend on 351 bus a lot. Most of the time i get off at White Rock Centre, and then get on a different bus. It used to be so convenient to get off 351 bus, and transfer on another bus until this year. I don't know who decides where each bus should stop but a lot of people take 351 bus actually from my house it's the only bus that comes. Anyways this year they have put 351 bus in the end and C buses the little buses front, but more people ride 351.[/QUOTE]
Julia, this is a temporay situation. The reason for the change is that there are 3 Community Shuttle buses that can arrive at WR Centre at the same time. Because of the way the sidewalk on the north/east corner 'jutts out', the tail end of the last CS bus sticks out into the lane of traffic.
The plan is to shave that 'jutt' off the side walk and then the buses will go back to their previous stopping pattern.
I hope that helps.
There should be a bus that departs from the South Surrey Park and Ride on weekday mornings. For the past month, I have had to wait for at least 2 buses during the morning rush because there were no seats left. There is definitely enough demand from the hundreds of riders who get on the bus at the Park and Ride that Translink should take this into consideration.
I realize that it is a little off topic, but just so that you are aware.
The no-show bus problem is not limited to the 351.
I do not have accurate records, but for the past 6 months, or so, some of the afternoon 394 and 345 busses from King George station to White Rock typically only show up 2-3 times a week. When we phone Translink to complain about the no-show busses, their standard excuse is that they do not have enough drivers to operate the busses.
However for 6 months or more, they have done nothing to improve the situation.
Hi,
I've been taking the bus to and from White Rock for several years now during the peak rush hours, I work at UBC.
I constantly feel frustrated with the White Rock buses that are always more than full! It seems as though if you don't get on the bus downtown to come home you don't get a seat at all! There aren't enough buses to White Rock! There are 4 Ladner buses, that rarely have people standing, and there are only 3 to White Rock.
Our community has grown enormously in the past few years with all the development in South Surrey and the buses haven't changed in response to this. The buses to Richmond, for example, are usually very full as well, however they come often enough that you will still get on the second or third one that goes by without waiting more than 30 min. I have waited for late buses and have watched many full buses go by.
I am happy to be able to voice my concern and frustration and see that I'm one of many who feel the same way. Thank you for making this possible.
hi there .. i catch the 354 near the Keg at 152 St and 32 Ave. if i don't get a 354, i have to hike over from KGH to my house in Rosemary Heights.
clearly the service is worse in poor weather, but it seems about once a week (just last Friday, and the Friday before) the 354 won't show at Broadway and Granville. then i get the joy of being sardined into a 352 or 351, standing for the 2 hours it takes to get to the bus loop, then hiking the last kilometer in the snow from KGH because neither the 354 or 394 will show on time.
of course, as soon as you leave the bus stop and start to walk, the bus you want blows by you.
lots of this is just bad luck, but .. it's not right to depend on "luck" for a bus schedule, is it?! come on people!
lastly, as far as tracking service goes, we spied a number of passenger counters at Broadway and Granville, likely to count totals of people on the suburban routes. this was on Dec 27. of course the ridership will be down between Christmas and New Years. so this is either a very poorly planned look into the ridership numbers, or a deliberate attempt to get lower than normal numbers.
either way, it's a waste of taxpayer money. we all pay for Translink, and we all pay for our monthly passes.
Hello
Having to strictly rely on public transportation is a challenge by itself for me at this very moment.
As a “sporadic” user of #351, service being a deterrent of sorts, I not only feel compelled to ask for a regular, safe and comfortable service directly into Vancouver, but also for direct, reliable service into Langley Centre.
It is absolutely unacceptable that we are cut of from the lower mainland by the lack of adequate public transport and acceptable connections!
Aside form the above, I have had the experience of being on the road by the side of a broken down bus right on the highway on a rainy day… I was headed for a seminar; luckily, a planned to be there much earlier!
Mostly, my concerns are those of timeliness/scheduling, and that of utter discomfort in either winter or summer, as neither fresh air or warmth appear to be on any level of seasonal manageability in these buses…
The prospect of having to go through Richmond sometime in the future to access Vancouver – a totally preposterous plan, dreamt up by clueless people that most likely drive everywhere - will further diminish my bus outings from the “Colonies”; I can see a “guzzler” on the horizon J
Another situation I would also like to have resolved is that of the cell phones and other intrusive “modern technology”.
Those very few that are discreet, do not need to fret, as I am referring to those that come on the bus, particularly after a long day’s work out of town, shouting from the top of their lungs…
This is a Very Confined Public Space, not someone’s living room, where they may do and say whatever they feel…. I do feel completely helpless to escape this rude imposition and therefore abused by the intolerable mindless and often vulgar chatter of those around me. One evening there were “four” of them on the bus at the same time.
I have been seriously cussed when I have had enough, and dared to ask to lower the voice. A few have done so. It is our right to travel in an environment of common courtesy – as a bare minimum. Drivers refuse to intervene…
For some of us, particularly of a certain agea, there is a lot more to bus riding that meets the eye…
Thanking you for having set up this blog to share our concerns.
Sincerely, A.M.Ballard – White Rock
Darlene:
The Peace Arch News got your web address wrong. They added a dot between "improve" and "351". I tried all configurations before hitting on the right one.
You have a great idea. When I first moved to the White Rock area 5years ago I found that, if I had an important apppontment in Vancouver, I had to take the scheduled bus BEFORE the one that should have got me there on time; later, I had to take the one before that. I have had many "no shows" especially between 5 p.m. and 6 p.m. but, unfortunately, have not kept an exact record. I have not been able going into Vancouver for the past few months because of health problems and it seems things have got even worse, Keep up the good work. Will look for the petition to sign.
I too have experienced similar frustrations with the three buses 351, 352, and 354 to South Surrey.
To the other riders all I can say please move back so others can ride. Maybe think about having one seat instead of one for you and one for all your stuff. Come on now, you know how busy the routes are.
To Translink. I've complained about your drivers who won't stop, run late, don't change zones on the computer then accuse you of trying to stiff them, SMOKE on the bus, drive too fast and ride the brakes while many people are standing etc,etc. ( and acknowledged there are some good ones too)
Try having some integrity both translink and union. Run the buses, run on time and get serious about providing the service that my taxes and user fees are paying for.
And for God's sake, you commuters think about giving up your seats to older folks and those who need it..seats that are not just for sleepy people who get on downtown..
With all these problems the solution seems obvious. How about some competition for Translink.
They have too much money wasted on unused bus lines and they are inefficient.
Why is it a by-law offence that I can be fined if I don't clear the snow from my sidewalks in 24 hours when Translink won't clean their walks at the park and ride. How much money is Translink spending on lawsuits!
Its high time to have some sort of inquest into how and where an unfettered public tax sponsered company is wasting all its money and not rendering the service to the public that it pays for.
Jan 29/07
I have been commuting from WhiteRock/South Surrey for 20 years. It should be getting better, but it is getting worse. I commute from 16th and 152nd to Broadway and Cambie. Trying to get on a bus after work at Broadway and Granville is a big problem. I might be able to get on a bus, but if I want a seat, then I usually have to wait around 30-45 minutes. When I called to complain that this was totally unacceptable and I was thinking of going back to driving, the customer service woman told me that “maybe transit wasn’t a good option for me”! At first I didn’t think I heard her right but spoke to a friend who got the same answer!! When a bus pulled up one night after waiting for a bus for about 90 minutes, the driver counted how many standees there were and she would only take a few of us. The rest got left behind. More standees could have fit and after that long of a wait you just want to get home and will get on a bus even if you are packed in like sardines.
On the snow days, I don’t have a chance of getting on a bus so I take the bus downtown. I have waited in front of the Art Gallery from 5:15 to 7:30 before a bus showed up. Three sets of the 601/602/603 came by. When I called, I was told it was the road conditions. I asked how the 601/602/603 managed to make it I got no reasonable explanation. I was told that in the new bus depot in Marpole, some of the buses froze because of snow and ice that was blown into them from off the water. From that, I can assume that they probably shifted our buses onto other routes. Years ago the 351/352/354 came from the Surrey Depot, I think they now come from the Marpole Depot.
On a totally different issue, they moved the stop at 16th from the most northern one to the stop in front of Sawbucks Pub. There is no cover there and we have to just crowd around on the narrow sidewalk with pedestrians fighting to get through. There is also no cover there and when the bus doesn’t show you get pretty wet! We pay the most and we get stuck out in the rain!
In the morning my transfer regularly runs out. I try and remember to ask the driver for a new one (which they always do) but it I forget I just use the expired one on the Broadway bus. There is no way I will pay anything more. They can call security before I get off or pay more.
I have to admit that I now drive more days than I take the bus.
My story,
Once when a bus did not show-up for my usual return trip home to White Rock after work,I asked the next bus driver what happened (why was the earlier bus pick-up missing) and he said,"Oh, I was being interviewed" - which left a huge group of us waiting at one bus stop alone on Howe St.
One morning when the bus did not come I called Translink and was told that because of the flu shots, drivers were calling sick and that due to the driver shortage - they pull drivers off our route first to cover other routes when there is a driver shortage.
Recently on a Saturday morning I wanted to take the 8:45 am 351 from Vancouver to White Rock - at 8:55 I called and asked where the bus was - she put me on hold to find out and after about 10 minutes on hold the bus showed up (20 minutes late and they only run every hour at that time)- when she came back on the line I said 'it has just pulled up'.
Weekends in White Rock heading into Vancouver, you can not count on the bus to be on time - you hope for the best but be prepared to wait 20 minutes beyond the schedule.
I don't see how diverting the bus to the Canada Line skytrain in the future will save us any time. I don't believe it.
Name's Dan - I commute almost daily to Vancouver. I lost count of the no-shows, sometimes several buses in a row. Lately, when I have important meetings in the morning, I am forced to conference in from home just to be safe. I then travel to D/T later and come back home much later at night as a result - this is really bad for my family life, TransLink.
A few points:
1. We do pay a significant amount to use a scheduled service. So we do our part. TransLink, get your act together - do your part. It's your schedule, you own it and you manage it. Don't blame it on everything else. If your managers can't manage this, try using other managers who can get the job done.
2. It blows my mind to read that we are encouraged to use transit extensively to reduce emissions, ease the traffic etc. You have a prime opportunity to reduce traffic by providing a RELIABLE and comfortable alternative. It is cheaper to ride the bus (due to high gas costs) and it should be faster (thanks to the fast lane). Back to basics please.
3. Don't stop half-way, TransLink. South Surrey Park&Ride was an awesome idea, but you need a good bus service to complement it.
4. TransLink, please treat everyone right. I have never experienced these major issues when I lived in Vancouver. Do you think, TransLink, that White Rock and South Surrey residents are second-class?
5. Think out of the box, TransLink. There are solutions to the problems we have. Please help us trust you again.
Thank you.
Some of you commuters south of Richmond have finally twigged that RAV will decimate your already poor bus service. The ridership estimates used to justify the RAV were grossly inflated by assuming that ALL Vancouver bound service from Surrey, Langley, Delta & White Rock would terminate at a RAV station in Richmond. As you are realising, you would have to transfer to the RAV, (then transfer again to a bus or Skytrain if your destination was not near the Downtown RAV station).
Opponents of the RAV tried to get your mayors and councils to understand this; and they did. They just understood the nature of power better. Why do you think it took three votes to push the project through? Why did Kevin Falcon go ballistic? Why did Larry Campbell get a senatorship after removing Fred Bass (and his negative vote)from the GVTA board? Why did the North Van mayor get a GVRD directorship after switching her vote? Water under the bridge. What matters is: bus service will be allowed to deteriorate in your area because the big planners feel that the RAV is just around the corner and that will solve all your problems. Also, they think you nice White Rock folks aren't the type to raise a fuss, unlike the UBC/SFU students or the Bus Rider's Union; that you'll play nice, play fair, and never get nasty.
Folks, prove them wrong. Attend your local council meetings and grill your delegates on the GVTA. Write Letters to the editor. Write your MLA. Write your MP. Let them know you're pissed off, you want action NOW, and you've got the ways and means to make life as miserable for them as they have made it for you. Don't get angry, get even. Have meetings. Send out press releases. Get noticed. This blog is a fine start. Look how many people have already started talking! Now get organised! Good luck.
I like to say something about canceled buses. They should find a way to let people know when a bus canceled so people won't have to wait and wait for the bus that won't even show up. Maybe make a post online what bus is canceled or put a sign on each stop that the bus is canceled. They can't leave it to last moment and cancel a bus and not let people know about it.
Anonymous says:
1: Everyone here has valid complaints about the bus system, whether you are talking about the 351 or any other bus in the GVRD. More buses are needed. More drivers are needed. Bus frequency needs to be increased. Nobody should be treated rudely by a driver or other company employee. Buses should run on time. As customers, we should all write, email, and phone the company and our regional politicians to ask for all of these things.
2: However, as passengers, here are some things we can all do better to help the buses be on time. Have your fare ready. When you stand beside the driver digging through your pockets and escavating your purse for your fare only to have to go through the previous week's worth of expired transfers (throw them out!!!) to find the one you think is going to work or contemplating the coins you have to see which combination of coins will lighten your pockets the most when you could have simply thrown in the twoonie and the quarter (or your two twoonies and two quarters) and hopefully the quarter isn't a commemorative coin of some kind that you need to complete your collection, obscuring the driver's view of the mirror and front door, you cause delays. Show your monthly pass such that it faces the driver. Don't block it with your fingers or hand. Don't show just the edge or point it towards the back of the bus. You don't want to open your purse or wallet on the mean streets of Vancouver? I don't blame you. I wouldn't myself. Therefore, have your fare ready in your front pocket before you leave your home or office. You think that your actions only consume a few seconds or a minute and that may be true, however, that small amount of time is all that it takes for the bus to not make the next light or to get out into that small space in traffic and therefore be stuck for an extra 1 to 3 minutes while the lights cycle. Multiply that small amount of time by all of the stops the bus makes along the route and all of the people who get on and do this same thing and that adds up to a lot of delays. This is no small part of the reason why buses are late.
3: If you are at a bus stop, make a decision as to whether you wish to get on the bus or not. Do not stand in the doorway and look for the bus you really want to take that you think is coming up behind at the moment. The prime example of this is boarding the #9 on Broadway at Granville and standing in the doorway looking for the #99. Don't do this. This causes more delays.
4: Be at the bus stop. Stand beside the bus stop pole when you see the bus coming. Don't wait for the bus to be 30 feet away and then jump from out of the shadows, doorway, or behind the bus shelter wall. You aren't leaving enoungh time for the bus to stop and this is part of the reason why they don't stop.
5: Again, be at the bus stop. While the printed schedule or the one you saw on the internet says that the bus should arrive at 6pm for example, arrive at 5:55pm to allow for any contigencies such as getting your fare ready, the bus arriving/leaving early (which granted it shouldn't do, certainly not at timing points/main intersections, but stuff happens.) Don't be surprised that the bus takes off on you or closes the door in your face (the driver probably really didn't see you) if you come running from around the corner at 6:01pm.
6: Get on the bus. Have all of your conversations and huging and kissing goodbye with your friends done before the bus gets there. Do not have a conversation in the doorway or hug and kiss in the doorway or on the sidewalk so as to cause another delay and annoyance to the driver and most importantly other passengers who have places to go and do not want to see your displays of affection and a repeat of what happens in paragraph 2 "Have your fare ready," above. Work out the chivalry before hand. Ladies and the elderly first is a good maxim, but if you stand on the sidewalk just looking at each other and having a philosophy discussion about who should go first, nobody gets on the bus, causing another delay.
7: Not sure where you want to go? Ask the driver. Your question should be phrased like this: "How do I get to the intersection of x and y in Vancouver?" Do not say: "Do turn right at yyy? Where do you go after that? Do you go straight?" Simply ask the driver how to get to where you want to go.
8: Move to the back of the bus as it fills up and give up your seat for those in need. Move all the way to the back and up the stairs. Maybe the bus shouldn't be this crowded to begin with (see paragrahp 1,) but moving to the back will help.
9: Exit through the back door if there is a back door when at all possible. When you go through the front, you interfere with people trying to get on. If you are standing near a door and someone wants to get out and the bus is crowded, open the door for them so that they can get out before the bus leaves.
1: To summarize:
2: Have your fare ready.
3: Make a decision as to whether you want the bus that is actually there.
4: Be at the bus stop on time and (5:) beside the bus stop pole.
6: Get on the bus.
7: Ask the driver consicely how to get to where you want to go if you don't know.
8: Move to the back of the bus.
9: Exit through the back door if at all possible.
If we all do these things, our bus riding adventures will be a lot more enjoyable.
Thanks for reading such a long post.
Jan31/07
The post from anonymous @9:02 a.m doesn't appear to do anything but to lecture us on being good transit users. We know how to be good users. I thought the point of this blog was to collect stories, complaints and ideas on how to improve the number, frequency and scheduling of the bus system to White Rock/South Surrey. Could anonymous be from Transit?
Stanley said we should "Attend your local council meetings and grill your delegates on the GVTA. Write Letters to the editor. Write your MLA. Write your MP. Let them know you're pissed off, you want action NOW, and you've got the ways and means to make life as miserable for them as they have made it for you. Don't get angry, get even. Have meetings. Send out press releases. Get noticed."....Are we going to do this?
I'm surprised that since the article that appeared in the Peace Arch News didn't garner any response in the form of letters to the editor.
I've been watching the issues since then and nothing.
[quote]Anonymous said...
My name is Ray and I also commute between White Rock and Vancouver. The 351 is never on time or it is missed all together and their is never any reason given by the bus driver.I spent $130 every month to be part of the solution and get treated like a third world computer. The busses should run every fifteen minutes during peak times and should be on time unless their are serve weather conditions or a tunnel accident.Buses that do not show up at all is unacceptable and totally inconvenient.
12:12 PM [/quote]
What about traffic Ray? Try as we might, we can't get the buses to fly.
Trust me, drivers are as frustrated as you are. You think it's pleasurable for us to show up at a stop with more than a few angry people standing there?
As a union, we try as we might to get serious improvements to the service but try as we might, the answer is always the same, "We don't have the buses."
Comments by TransLink spokespeople on the trolley steering issue exemplify the significant disconnect between those responsible for providing bus service and those who ride and operate the system. On Tuesday Coast Mountain Bus Company grounded the new trolley fleet due to safety concerns arising from a power steering loss that isn't just 'momentary' as described. The Wednesday Vancouver Sun story reported that a TransLink representative said the problem should be quick and easy to repair. The same story reported that TransLink spokesperson Drew Snider said TransLink hopes to have the buses repaired within a day or two and is looking for other buses to fill the gaps in service. In the same story he is quoted as saying " we're just seeing where we can get some extra resources for this afternoon's rush hour. Right now we don't know, exactly."
Saturday's story reports repair technicians have still not found a solution to the power steering issue and again cites TransLink spokepeople indicating the loss of power steering is temporary, which is not always the case. Saturday's story also reports TransLink spokesperson Drew Snider saying TransLink planners have been trying to reallocate resources and that customers have not noticed serious delays. The story further quotes Mr. Snider saying 'It's not been much of a scramble,", adding TransLink has borrowed five buses from Abbotsford and Whistler to help fill the gaps.
For the record, the industry standard vehicle spare ratio is 10%. For our system of approximately 1000 buses we should have 100 spares to allow for regular maintenance, breakdowns, and unforseen problems like snow storms or large vehicle groundings like the current situation with the new trolleys.
Unfortunately we essentially have no spare buses at any of our six depots throughout the system with the exception of Richmond, which has but a handful.
Even prior to the snowy weather and trolley problem we have been cancelling regularly scheduled service for months on end, averaging 20 buses short per day at our Surrey depot and 30 per day at the Vancouver depot due to a shortage of buses and spares. These are buses that are all scheduled to be in service for several hours each during weekday rush hours.
If we had anything approaching the spare ratio industry standard the loss of 40 odd trolleys could have easily been absorbed within our own system. The fact we had to call on Abbotsford and Whistler for buses is clear indication of the shortage and clear indication it actually has been a considerable scramble.
Coast Mountain Bus Company has brought in some vehicle from their own depots in the Region, but because they have zero spares it has increased the cancellations of service on other routes thoughout the system. From Wednesday through Friday this week since the trolleys were pulled from service our Vancouver depot has cancelled an average of 40 buses scheduled for service each day, leaving extensive gaps in service on the routes affected. To suggest customers have not noticed serious delays is bizarre. Many routes with an advertized ten minute service are seeing gaps of 30-60 minutes in wait times, only to have a bus finally show up and have no room to accomodate the waiting passengers. On Broadway the 99 B-Line has been pressed into providing local service to offset the significant loss of buses to provide the local service, causing extensive delays and longer trips on a normally express service. TransLink's first long range plan approved in 2000 proposed we would need and should have over 1500 conventional buses by 2000. Here we are in 2007 and we currently require only 968 to provide the advertised scheduled service, and seldom ever do because of the state of the bus fleet and complete lack of spares. If as anticipated by TransLink that this trolley problem was hoped to be resloved within a day or two, why are we calling for resource help from as far away as Abbotsford and Whistler?Reportedly we even called Victoria for spares. Again, obviously we wouldn't even have to contemplate that if we had a proper spare ratio of our own.
I can understand any company trying to put a positive spin on an issue or portray a problem with their product in the least damning light, but Translink's portrayal of the extent of this problem, our ability to accomodate it, and the impact to our customers, is so far from the reality it borders on
irresponsibility. I realize when reporters try to get information on a Coast Mountain Bus issue they may often be directed to Mr. Snider or Mr. Hardie at TransLink, but it should be remembered neither of those gentlemen work for Coast
Mountain Bus Company and by virtue of the structure of TransLink and no fault of their own, are too far removed from the actual issues related to bus service operations. I also realize time constraints may make it next to impossible to get out and canvass intending bus passengers about the extent of the resulting service delays, but I can guarantee you it would be decidedly diferent from that portrayed by Mr. Snider. Perhaps you could ask CMBC for a copy of its' daily cancellation lists to truly see the amount of service missing that is advertised in our schedules. Oddly enough they have recently tried to keep it from our Union reps because they know we would likely show it
to you.
TransLink's press announcements about the number of buses to be purchased and arrive this year are also misleading. The only number of any consequence relative to addressing the extensive and daily overcrowding on our buses is the vehicle 'expansion' number. Everything else is a replacement vehicle, which includes the entire new trolley fleet. In 2006 we expanded our conventional fleet by a mere 52 buses. Those were the first buses purchased by TransLink
since 2000. The first thirty of those buses did not arrive and go into service until September, with the remaining 20 going into service with two weeks left in
06. For 07 the expansion number of conventional buses is 75, and it is only the conventional routes experiencing the overcrowding problems. Again none of those will arrive and go into service to reduce overcrowding until September of this year. Since the bus purchase orders fall into two categories only, expansion or replacement, none of these new buses will go to addressing our spare ratio problem. The extent of the overcrowding is such that the number of expansion vehicles we received last year and coming this year will barely make a dent in the problem. In 2008 the current number of new buses to be purchased was substantially reduced when TransLink advanced some of those scheduled for purchase in 08 into the 06 order in response to their own report on the magnitude of the overcrowding situation. In short this just shows the number of vehicles in their Plan was far below what was needed and far below their original Plan of 2000.
I realize this is far too long for consideration of publication and that was not my hope in sending it. I simply want you to undertand the extent of the problem, provide the other side to the story and show TransLink's explanation is inaccurate and contradictory. Please contact us in the future for some insight into the predictable TransLink spin when these stories surface. Again, I am certain our passengers would not agree with Mr. Snider that the service delays have not been serious. As but one small example White Rock riders are so frustrated they created a blog site. improve351.blogspot can check
it out and see how often their bus never shows up or is over an hour behind schedule. And that was before the snow or trolley problem.
I thank you for the time you gave to read this and any consideration of its
content.
Respectfully,
Jim Houlahan
Vice President, CAW Local 111
Representing CMBC Busdrivers
What we desperately need is more buses leaving White Rock to downtown and back.
I am a regular commuter who gets on at the Park N' Ride at 7am and leaves downtown around 4:30pm. Buses are full leaving White Rock and when leaving downtown are full as soon as we get to Broadway and Granville or even earlier. I feel sorry for those people who have to stand on a regular basis. Luckily there are sometimes some good samaritans who will offer their seat up.
I occasionally take the bus at 6am from the Park N' Ride and I have had to stand every time because the bus is full i.e. standing room only to the red line.
We need more buses going in and out of town. Our community has grown dramatically and we haven't been compensated with more buses.
I also understand that the Park N' Ride is being used by people who are living in Cloverdale and Langley. This is fine but Translink, please put on more buses. Aren't you trying to keep more cars off the road?
On a final note, when our buses won't be going directly downtown any more and reverted to the new Canada Rav Line, I will be driving my car in the city like a lot of other people plan to do. Translink, do not take away our direct bus to the city especially during rush hour. How come you never took away the 311 (a direct service from North Delta to downtown)when the skytrain was built? Explain that one.
With respect to the bus drivers, you are doing a wonderful job. I am thankful to you everyday for getting me to work and back safe and sound! You guys put in a hard day's work especially during snow storms.
Hello,
When are you going to do something about the no show up 394 and 345? Yesterday i got to my stop at 6:05 and the bus was schedualed to come at 6:15 i called translink to find out if it was canceled incase so i could take 321 and not miss it. The lady said wait its still not 6:15 so i call back at 6:17 the lady says only 3 minutes late and when i called at 6:20 she told me was canceled? What kind of service is that? So i have missed 321 and had to take a later one and didnt get home till late. Do something about this please.
Hi,
I belong to a minority of commuters who use the bike rack on the 351/4. I have noticed that not only hasthe buses become fuller in the last two years, but the bike racks on the buses have also gotten fuller... My concern is that there are not enough buses to accomodate the increasing number of bike riders. We need at least a bus every 10 minutes... I've had to resort to go extremely early to avoid having to fight with other bike riders to get on. It is quite stress ful to not know if you are going to get on the bus and have to wait another 20 minutes because the two bike slots on the bus are full.
Despite going really early, there was four bike riders trying to take the 5AM bus a couple of Mondays ago. Two were left behind, and quite frustrated.
So, I'm all for MORE FREQUENT BUS service, starting 5AM every ten minutes until rush hour is over.
[quote]We need more buses going in and out of town. Our community has grown dramatically and we haven't been compensated with more buses.
I also understand that the Park N' Ride is being used by people who are living in Cloverdale and Langley. This is fine but Translink, please put on more buses. Aren't you trying to keep more cars off the road?
On a final note, when our buses won't be going directly downtown any more and reverted to the new Canada Rav Line, I will be driving my car in the city like a lot of other people plan to do. Translink, do not take away our direct bus to the city especially during rush hour. How come you never took away the 311 (a direct service from North Delta to downtown)when the skytrain was built? Explain that one.[/quote]
These are legitimate concerns but let me explain whjy you won't see Translink purchasing a significant amount of coaches in the future to service this particular area.
Simply put, when the RAV line opens up, there will be no need for extra buses. The buses currently leaving White Rock/South Surrey will only be going as far as Bridgepoint Station in Richmond. So the turnaround will be that much quicker. Unfortunately, this is the mindset of the folks who run the show. "They've put up with things the way they are now for so long, they'll put up with it till the RAV line is completed."
Show them you won't. Take action. Apathy will get you nowhere.
As for buses not going downtown after the RAV line is built, forget it. The Expo line doesn't have a 3P component. The RAV (or Canada) line does. That private partner has been guaranteed a certain amount of ridership everyday. If Translink falls short of that promise, they go into a penalty phase with the private partner. This is why they will feed the RAV line with everything south of the Oak Street Bridge.
I live in White Rock and work at downtown too. My job requres me to stand all the time, 8 hours the most. Last Wednesday I was waiting for 351 at Howe & Georgia, downtown, at 8pm. It turned out that I waited for more than ONE HOUR because TWO 351 buses didn't come at 8:04 & 8:34! For what reasons? They said traffic. Hello? It's Wednesday night, with light rain only. and it turned out that they used a b-line bus for substitue.
It's ok, I understand. They were even 30 min. late on the night of Halloween, 2006! Their reason? "Because today is Halloween." Yah right, the whole bus went for trick or treat.
On January 18th, I waited at my usual bus stop for the 9:16am 351, from White Rock to Vancouver. It did not show. The 9:46 am didn’t show either. The 10:16 finally appeared but it was late. According to TransLink the bit of snow we had during rush hour created the delay. Once again I had to cancel my clients. I was out $450. that morning due to my not being able to depend on the bus. I did not get into Vancouver that day until 11:30am. I then was told by the bus driver that all of us had to get out of the bus at 41st as he had to turn around and get back to White Rock. I had to wait an additional ten minutes to catch the city bus in order to get to Broadway and Granville. Once again I say to TransLink what are you doing? If that is what the bus driver must do to make his schedule then more buses are needed! I have experienced now 26 "no shows" since moving out to White Rock last January, only three of those could be attributed to the weather and regardless if the no shows were all weather related, the system is not working. Must we take a “snow day” and cancel our business day in Vancouver because we can’t depend on transit. Unless TransLink is willing to write a letter to my clients each time I have to take the day off because the weather is bad, this isn't going to work.
D. L. Robinson
White Rock
[quote]Anonymous said...
I live in White Rock and work at downtown too. My job requres me to stand all the time, 8 hours the most. Last Wednesday I was waiting for 351 at Howe & Georgia, downtown, at 8pm. It turned out that I waited for more than ONE HOUR because TWO 351 buses didn't come at 8:04 & 8:34! For what reasons? They said traffic. Hello? It's Wednesday night, with light rain only. and it turned out that they used a b-line bus for substitue.
It's ok, I understand. They were even 30 min. late on the night of Halloween, 2006! Their reason? "Because today is Halloween." Yah right, the whole bus went for trick or treat.
1:38 PM [/quote]
As a transit operator (and one who depends on transit to get to/from work), I can tell you that we get just as stressed about our buses not being able to keep the schedule. The transit schedules do not work with the main reason(s) being traffic and the lack of equipment. Weather can certainly be a factor but not in the majority of cases.
Just so you're aware, the run that is supposed to pick you up, is most likely attached to another run. If the first run is experiencing delays, then it's not so far a reach that your run is also going to be late.
Then there's the question of available equipment. There is such a lack of spare coaches that if any bus should go down chances are that run will be cancelled.
We have routes that have had runs cencelled because the garage from which that route originates from has been ordered to send some of their coaches to another garage.
It's up to you, the transit using public to make your concerns/demands known to the Translink authority that this is an unacceptable situation. That not all transit dollars should be spent on the RAV line at the exspense of the existing service nevermind the need for service expansion.
Hey,
i am 16 years old i work in white rock and live in east white rock and guess what all my friends live in cresent beach what a shame eh. anyways every night i go out i take the unreliable 351. i think its a 2/3 chance it will show up late or not show up. So i take a risk. so i leave where ever i am around the cresent beach area at around 11:20 just incase the bus comes early and the bus driver is an ass and disides to go alittle early. i usually get to the 24th/128th stop heading to vancouver at 11:25 and the bust is estimated to come at 11:37 but theres only i think 10% chance that it comes close to that and i think over a year there has been about 10 no shows especially when it snows. thats all i have to say
[quote]Richard said...
Hey,
i am 16 years old i work in white rock and live in east white rock and guess what all my friends live in cresent beach what a shame eh. anyways every night i go out i take the unreliable 351. i think its a 2/3 chance it will show up late or not show up. So i take a risk. so i leave where ever i am around the cresent beach area at around 11:20 just incase the bus comes early and the bus driver is an ass and disides to go alittle early. i usually get to the 24th/128th stop heading to vancouver at 11:25 and the bust is estimated to come at 11:37 but theres only i think 10% chance that it comes close to that and i think over a year there has been about 10 no shows especially when it snows. thats all i have to say
4:29 PM [/quote]
And if in fact the driver is leaving his/her terminus early you have a legitimate beef. Note the time and call it in to customer service.
As for no shows or late coaches, you have to realise that these schedules are very tight to impossible to make unless the driver is willing to drive well over the speed limit.
If we are that late, we are instructed to call in and aslk for direction. Supervisors determine whether or not the bus will make it to its terminus. That decision is not in the driver's hands.
I think the management of the bus company knows how bad their service is, and bottom line does not care very much about it.
Re what to do-I am selling my house and moving into Vancouver. My judgment is that nothing significant will be done. Most new money going into transit is going into the Canada Line. The B.C. government's announcement re a new green policy, i.e. less emissions etc. will not I believe be translated into improved bus service. We have money for Olympic overruns, but not for adequate bus service. If you think politicians, bus management etc. care ask them if they take the bus themselves.
Thanks for the opportunity to contribute to the discussion. I have been commuting on the 351/354 for six years. There is no doubt that the service has deteriorated significantly since I started. I have experienced numerous no-shows (the 7:31 pm from Downtown is particularly prone - I refer to it as the bus that gets abducted by aliens). In fairness a big part of the problem is the amount of traffic on the roads but on the other hand if the bus service was adequate fewer people would drive. If the Provincial Government is even remotely serious about reducing greenhouse gas emissions (40% of which come from motor vehicles in BC), they must put (our) money where their mouth is. If the Federal Government is serious, it must transfer more money to municipalities to invest in public transportation.
Here's an idea: instead of designating one lane as an HOV lane, designate one lane as a SOV (single occupancy vehicle) lane and make the others HOV lanes. The only problem with that is that the gas sucking SUV commuters won't be able to get out of their driveways.
I am a bus driver and translink is well aware of the problem and they aren't going to fix it now or ever. Why? No drivers ? No buses to drive ? Sometimes we can't even get out of the yard on time for problem buses and then you don't get one. Traffic and slow people getting on the bus are the biggest problem and frankly the 351 should not pick up or drop off in whiterock while it is heading downtown or vice versa. There should be some other bus which drives around whiterock, then mabye the commuters would get to work on time. Better yet just run from the park and ride to downtown and vice versa. No white rock to deal with. Come the skytrain you guys will be out of luck. They won't make the bus go all the way downtown because they need the ridership on the skytrain to pay for it.
Congrats on your first victory with the addition of two more buses in April. It may not seem like much, but it shows that when peaceful villagers become a mob with pitchforks and burning torches, the bureucrats rush to appease them. Keep up the pressure. Fight for the service you deserve, and that you pay for with your taxes. Again, well done.
Hi,
I live in Vancouver but I work in White Rock and I've been commuting for the last 2 years. I know that my situation sounds different 'cause I go against traffic but let me tell you, is the same. I don't know how many times I've had to wait for more than an hour for a bus to show up. In my case, there's only buses every hour so if one doesn't show up we have to wait for a full hour and hope that the next one shows. It's frustrating. I'm late for work most of the time and on my way back to Vancouver is always the waiting and hoping that the bus shows up.
I'm glad someone started this blog. I've complained by phone and by mail but you don't even get an answer. I also would like to say that I know this is not the drivers fault, there's not much they can do if the traffic is bad. We need more buses running on both directions.
Thanks
I have to say this . Sometimes even if there was more buses there is nothing that will help. I have sat in traffic doing the 410 22nd street station and sat there for an hour and a half to 2 hours. On my way back to Richmond there was 11 buses in a row stuck in traffic. The backlog of that is awful and it wouldn't matter if you put more buses on.. They would all sit there in traffic together.
Hi everyone!
I think that the two extra buses are the first step. However, there are some people, such as myself and probably others, that feel that the 351 should operate on a more fequent service during off-peak hours (say, every 15 minutes.) I know Translink can do this because I have been by the Richmond Bus Depot (where the 351 buses are) and I see probably fifty buses there just doing nothing!
Why don't they use those buses??!!
And with the timing of the buses, I had to travel Downtown yesterday @ 3:15. The bus was late by four minutes, which was fine. However, when we got to Broadway, I thought I was going to miss my connection. I didn't, however, I had to run to catch my connection and I MAJORLY sprained my ancle a few days ago.
I just feel that Translink can do better with the bus system!
spoken like a true person who has no idea. Obviously you haven't been to the depot during rush periods. THey are all out and sometimes there isn't enough buses to go around and other times no one to drive them.
Another thing you should know is that 351's are also 601's . So if we are delayed on the 601, you will be late for the 351. Nothing can be done to fix this than other making 351's just 351's. And please tell everyone to quit asking where the bus was in front of us. We drive our route. Transit does not inform us if one is missing. Think of it this way. While standing at the bus stop do you know where all your friends are at this exact moment and what they are doing.
I am a bus driver and completely frustered at the complaints. People in white rock are just as much part of the problem. Tired of the dirty looks and there was even a comment on here that the bus was four minutes late. Does anyone actually read the schedule where it says this is an estimated time of arrival. If we arrive 10 minutes after we are still on time . If we arrive 15 minutes after we are still on time. This is an estimated time. If you are travelling by bus all the way from white rock and the service isn't frequent enough then yes we need more service but there isn't enough buses or people to drive them. There is work every day that gets cancelled due to no one to drive the bus . I have only been on the job a few years and have to say the job has changed me. I started off wanting to do well and I am now starting to be one of those crusty drivers you have printed here. So if that is me after a few years where are they going to find new people to drive. I wish I could say it will get better for all you guys but I really don't think it will. People are people and they are still going to be slow getting on the bus, slow moving to the back, slow having their fares ready and full of questions for the bus driver when you should figure out where you are going before you leave the house.
Speaking of the complaints on the type of bus you get to ride on. If we are to show up on a regular city bus because nothing is left you still complain. So what is it? Do you want a limo ride from vancouver to whiterock for $4.50 or do you want reliable transportation? IF all they had left was a regular bus and I were to show up in it , nothing but complaints. So from what I am hearing I guess we shouldn't come at all? Is this what the people from white rock want?
As for the drivers that drive past you ...there are many reasons why they don't stop to pick you up. They may be running late and been instructed from a supervisor to not pick up for so many blocks as the supervisor had decided. Or if there was a wheelchair on the bus we are not allowd to load past the blue line which is behind the wheelchair area. Also we are not supposed to take more than 11 people standing or it is not safe to travel. Consider yourself lucky if the driver overloads the bus and you don't stand for another 30 minutes to wait for the next.
As for the park and stand comment , it is first come first serve and I guess the people who have got on the bus before you have figured out how to get on the bus at an earlier stop in Whiterock. Maybe the 351 should only run from white rock park and ride to vancouver and not even go into white rock. I often loose time due to going into white rock itself. Oh wait they couldn't do that because they couldn't put a bathroom in at the park and ride and yes again we are robots and never have to use the washroom.
Lets face it. The 351 service is woefully inadequate. It does not meet the needs of the users. It is totally unreliable, it is overcrowded and the bus drivers are a miserable bunch (read the last few comments on this site).
How true is the Park and Stand. I caught the 8:15am yesterday and the 8:45am today and had to stand all the way to Broadway both times. That is unacceptable. Adding the odd bus here and there will not cut it. We need service every 15 minutes during the 3 hour rush, mornings and evenings, and a few buses originating at the Park and Stand. Finally, the union should put all the grumpy drivers through a "service with a smile" course. After all, its us that are paying their wages and I think most of them don't appreciate that.
Hello,
I think its bullshit that the bus doesn't bother to come on time after 10. I've waited at the bus stop at 140th and 16th and sometimes the 351 to Vancouver doesn't even come for an hour when its suppose to be every 30 mins. Why is this, and this shouldn't be happening, how are bus drivers even allowed to get away with this. FIX THE BUS ROUTES!!! people have places to be and they'd like to be on time!
I must say that I am disappointed with the reaction of some of the drivers who have posted here.
You may have issues with how CMBC/Translink has dealt with the inadequete service in the South Surrey area but exactly 'what have you done' to address these issues?
The passenger is not our enemy. Frustrated yes, but what would you expect?
If there was a service being offered in any of our lives in such unreliable fashion, we would be vocal in our dissatisfaction.
I have been a transit operator for over 7 years now. I live in the city of White Rock and have experienced the unreliability of the service firsthand.
But let us realize who is to blame here. The enemy is not transit operators or passengers but the behemoth that is Translink.
This entity has been a royal failure right from the beginning and it's time it answered for it's failures and it's disdain for the true backbone of the transit system.
Fellow drivers, users of the bus system, let us not throw stones at each other but rather, attack the entity that is truly at fault, Translink.
This pitiful excuse for an authority should be brought down and put out of our collective misery.
Mayors, councilpeople, who don't use public transportation have no business in dictating what the service shall be 'or' how to tax those who do use the system.
Falcon should do the honourable thing and fold this joke of a governing body. Or perhaps he is just fine with 'them' taking the heat while shielding the provincial governement from same.
If you are to insist on serious public transport that answers your demands/needs, be positive in your approach 'but be public' in it.
Act, but act publically.
Don't let the power(s) that be get off scant free while they 'blame each other' for collective misery.
As for the last comment the driver knows that fellow drivers have put comment after comment in. Also they only way routes get fixed is if the drivers are contantly late. Which means driving the bus the way you are supposed to and not becking to the insane schedule that the passengars want us to adhere to. I have done the 351 and been told that the other driver gets me downtown faster. So in other words we are to be speed demans and damm the safety aspect of it. Well I am not going to do that. So if I am late and arrive and get bitched at , oh well. I will still be late tomorrow and the day after that and so on. COmplaining to me won't fix anything but annoy the driver. Then we get short turns to avoid getting complained to and there for a bus is missing. It is a nasty circle that keeps repeating itself and I am sorry but I really don't think anyone is going to fix this.
As for the no shows. Translink is like any other company when it is short staffed. There are certain routes where there isn't a driver to drive them EVER. It may go on the OT list but that doesn't guarrantee anyone will do it. If someone calls in sick then you don't get a driver for that bus. Same as for any other place of employment. Not perfect in any means.
They are adding buses to the morning rush hour in April but they aren't adding evening rush hour buses till later in the year.
Hello,
We should have a service of no show up bus. What i mean is maybe people who really got to know if the bus not coming can pay a month whatever price and a message machine or a person can call them and let them know that this bus was canceled. That would make things better for bus riders. Then they can decide what bus to take instead and maybe less chance of them been late to work or wherever they are heading. What do you all think?
sorry folks....i give up. i am back to driving. leaving broadway and cambie at 4:30 i can make it home by 5:30. if i take the bus, sometimes i have to wait until almost 6 o'clock before i can get on a bus at granville and broadway. between overcrowded buses, buses that don't show up and buses that brake down on the trip, i just can't take it any more. two more buses a day will not do anything if they don't show up! out of four days that i worked a couple weeks ago, only 1 day did the communte work. i had buses that would pass the broadway stop because they were full, buses that were missing, the one day that i finally got on a bus at a reasonable time, it broke down! i am waving my white flag and surrender!
Tuesday March 20/07
7:15AM, I am on the 354 out of White Rock and it breaks down on highway just before the Matthews Exchange. Driver calls in. Driver gets bus going enough to limp into Matthews Exchange. Tells us supervisor is on route and we have to wait for any bus that might happen to stop so we can transfer onto it. Supervisor shows up in 15 minutes. In the meantime 2 buses have passed us by on the highway. While the supervisor is there, another two bus's pass by on highway. Driver asks supervisor why the other drivers were not called to stop. He said he was trying but one driver said he was already past us and another driver would not answer his phone. Our driver asks supervisor why the head office did not call these bus's as soon as he phoned in with the problem. A 311 comes by and pick's up half our passengers, but that's it as it is packed standing room. 40 minutes in the one 351 driver he did reach finally comes by and picks up most of the remainder of the passengers but he already had people standing. Finally at the 45 minute mark, another 311 comes and picks up the rest of us. It already had people standing. Biggest problem here was a lack of communication. Those other buses should have been called right away. Any major successful company has good communication. Translink obviously does not. Special thanks to our driver who was thinking of us and our safety by getting us off the busy highway and also offering his cell phone if anyone need to call in to work. Also for showing that he was just as frustrated with the system as we were.
Hi There,
I take 351 in the morning to get to White Rock centre to catch 345 or 394 whatever bus i can make it to. Since they moved 351 bus to the back sometimes the 345 bus or 394 just leave, because they can't see the people getting off the 351 bus. Sometimes it takes just to get off 351 and you can see the 345 or 394 already drive off. Is there a way maybe that the someone can look if the 351 bus is there and see if anyone coming from the 351 and wait like a minute or less then a minute for the person to get to the bus? That would be very great.
Hello Everyone!
Well today 345 didn't show up at White Rock centre and i called translink before hand and after hand they say oh its not cancelled then i called after they said oh its only 9 min late. I called again and i ended up catching 394 at 8am and was late. Not enough that i pay for bus i had to make calls to transit to find out if bus show or not. If they had called the bus driver and find out and let me know maybe then i could have cought the 321 even if 321 takes longer since people get on and get off. I been taking bus for over 10 years now and oh my the service is getting way worest with each year.
This is why you cannot believe tha crap that Translink sends your way...
We knew that this was an inferior radio/phone system when they installed it but they kept telling you folks that it was the cat's ass...
'You' are the ones that need to act/react.
Make your voice known with your vote.
These idiots that have been in charge of our transit system for lo these many years have been lying to you.
Show them you won't stand for it any further!
HELLO
Today i called translink to ask them if a bus show up and all they said to me was... You don't have to believe that a bus won't show up. Do they even know what they are talking about? I came to my stop and lots of people wore standing there and telling me that the previous few buses never came. Plus Friday my bus never came. Great translink service. Makes everyone so happy everyday hearing things like that.
A while back someone made a comment regarding the 10pm bus being late and that the drivers shouldn't be allowd to get away with it. Well I am that driver. I saw it on the overtime list one day and decided to do it. Otherwise you would probably not have it show up because there would be no one to drive it. And as for being late. Well I drove from vancouver to cresent beach and needed to use the washroom before I drove back to vancouver. Very sorry for being human and nature was calling. I was only 8 minutes late and actually that is just a guide for you to be waiting at the bus, not an exact time.
As per the Rolling Stones "all the usual crap, all the usual sleaze". The woes continue on the pathetic 351 service. Friday night, the 6:36pm to White Rock left downtown at 6:58pm. It was full before Broadway and it was standing room only from there. The 7:00pm rolled by us at the Broadway stop nearly empty yet no effort was made to let the standing passengers transfer over to the empty bus. Worse then, at the Park and Stand, the driver decided he was so late he was going to turn around there so everybody had to get off to get the next bus. I felt sorry for the wheelchair passenger who had to unload and then get on the next bus. I got home at 8:30 that night.
This morning the 8:15am to downtown was standing room only before it even reached the Park and Stand. There are 15 of us waiting to get on. Standing all the way to Broadway. How bad is that? How dangerous is that?
Two consequtive journeys that clearly show the problems with our bus service in White Rock.
We need more buses. When will Translink get it? Ever?
Copy of letter sent to Kevin Falcon:
In light of the publicity that followed the recent accident involving farm workers riding in an overcrowded vehicle that only had two seat belts, this may be a good time to bring attention to similar practices being conducted on a daily basis by our Transit system.
I am referring to those bus routes that run along the freeway between the suburbs of White Rock, Surrey, South Delta and Vancouver.
During the rush hour periods, these highway buses have a full complement of passengers standing in the aisles for up to an hour. No other private bus companies are allowed non-seated passengers, but apparently the public transit has negotiated an exemption from this rule, by agreeing to exit at the Massey Tunnel and the Mathew Exchange at Hwy. 10.
This exemption may have been seen to be appropriate in the late 70’ and early 80’s, as the traffic flow a few decades ago was not congested.
With the considerable rise in the development of the suburbs, the number of vehicles on Hwy. 99 has increased dramatically. The fully loaded buses, such as the 601, 311 and 351 routes, plus a number of “rush hour only” buses are currently traveling in very dense traffic with speeds up to 100km/h with a dozen or more standees having only overhead hand holds for support.
I feel this is a very dangerous situation and that up until now; it has been only a matter of the Transit driver’s defensive driving skills and plain luck that none of these buses has been involved in a major accident. I must point out that some accidents, no matter how skilled a driver is, are non-preventable due to a gross error by another driver or a mechanical failure of another vehicle.
I further feel that steps should be taken as soon as possible by the appropriate regulating government body to remove Transit’s exemption that allows standees on buses that travel on freeways. It would be unwise to wait for the inevitable accident that will cause injuries and/or the loss of life.
Budgetary considerations cannot be allowed to compromise the safety of the people traveling on public transit, just as they are not allowed to compromise the safety of farm workers traveling to their job sites.
I agree with no standees on hwy buses. Completely unsafe!!!!!!!!I am a bus driver to boot.
HI
I was thinking so many people complain about bus not show up or bus late. They should put boards at each bus stop like at the airport that tells you if the bus is going to be late or not going to show up. Like for the planes it tells you which flight is delayed and which flight is canceled.
Well i guess if there is going to be no standing on a bus then there should be more buses. Why should people wait for hours for another bus if you have no standing then get more buses.
I frequently used the 351 bus service to go to school and work and throughout that time the buses were frequently late or didn't show up at all. And this was only going towards White Rock Centre, so I can only imagine how the poor souls who go to Vancouver only a daily basis feel.
In one instance, the bus was 20 minutes late and several half empty 352's rolled by. When one of them stopped at our stop I asked the driver if he knew when the 351 would come and he said, "oh he's 20 minutes late and he's going to be at least another 20-30 minutes."
Having lived in London, England and been privledged to a first class transport system, I unfortunately will take take the "non-green" route and drive. My impression to a new employor is more important until Translink gets their act together as 'the bus was late' excuse doesn't cut it after the fourth or fifth time.
Translink got even worest after April 23 with the new time schedule. You either waiting longer for the second bus or you miss your second bus or the bus is late. The buses no longer connect with each other and thats not a good thing.
Good bye 351 folk. It's been fun driving you to and from Vancouver, despite the trials and tribulations of your (and my) daily commute, but for me it's retirement (early) time after 31 years of transit. I should also mention all the high school kids who take the 351 to Semiahmoo Secondary: Transit should give you guys a medal for putting up with the daily crush load, and still maintaining your good attitude. Tanks for all the hellos and goodbyes.
I'll still continue to bug our MLA's about one of my pet peeves- standing passengers on the freeway. I don't think it is a safe situation. Why Transit continues to enjoy an exemption, while every other bus line is prohibited from carrying standees baffles me. I hope we don't have to wait for the first accident with injuries to change this abberant behaviour.
A special thanks to the ladies who smile and say hello at 5:00am! You always made my day.
Have a peek if you wish at:
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2193&l=db293&id=518352383
Peter
Its a pity that this blog has grinded to a halt. I thought we had some momentum earlier this year but looks like 351 riders are now out of steam or have given up. Yet the problems still continue. The 6:56pm out of Vancouver is continually late or is a no-show. The 8:18AM out of White Rock is generally standing room only if you get on at the Park and Stand. Yesterday I stood to Broadway along with 20 or so others. A nasty accident is waiting to happen. I keep phoning in to complain but we need a group voice. So I ask that all frustrated 351 users reactivate this blog and keep filing complaints with Translink. Can you imagine what its going to be like in September!!! Don't let it get worse.
note to all transit users. Do not complain via telephone, complain via writing a letter. Translink can ignore calls but letters are harder to ignore.
Note to transit riders in the A.M. The drivers are given 20 minutes to complete the pretrip for the bus. Now if all is well then no problem , your bus shall arrive. Now if there is a problem you have to call control which in turn sends you to the mechanics or the mechanics come to you. We then have to wait to see if they will fix it or whether or not we get another bus. Trust me this takes longer than 20 minutes. Some of us go to work early to try to fix this and if we arrive late we still get complained to. We do our best to get to you on time and with a safe coach. Granted that is something no one cares about because they just want to get to work on time. We understand that too but please stop complaining to the bus drivers. It just puts us in a bad mood considering some of us go 8 hours without a real break.
How about adding buses for special events such as fireworks? I twice tried to catch the 6:57 bus from the Park and Ride, first at 128 & 24 and the got a ride down to the Park & Ride when it didn't show. It was 15 min late and completely full when it got there- didn't even stop.
Left 15 people standing there to wait an hour or do as I did and attempt a 2hr transit marathon via 321-skytrain-99 B-line to get into Kits.
Quite the reward for CHOOSING the environmentally-conscious route and taking transit.
July 29/07
Just a note to let you all know that as of September, most of the 354's and 352's will no longer be operated out of the Richmond garage. The powers that be, decided it would be more prudent to send those routes back to the Surrey depot. One caveat; if you take either one of these buses in the pm rush hour, be prepared for a long wait. These same powers deduced that if it took the buses 47 minutes to go "Not In Service" from the Richmond depot to downtown, they should add more time for the Surrey buses to complete the same task. They decided that an extra 3 minutes should do the trick. This means that the Translink schedulers feel that a bus can drive the speed limit and go from 132nd. St and 76th. Ave, during rush hour in 50 minutes. I've been doing that work for the past 4 years out of Richmond, and you best believe, we need all of the 47 minutes they allow us. 3 more...GOOD LUCK.
As for the fireworks they didn't have extra buses starting until 6pm, but alot of us drivers who volunteered for overtime to help out with that situation could not get to our work fast enough because we were late on our regular work. I had loads of teenagers riding the bus into town just to be on the bus first to get down to the fireworks. Then there is the cleanup afterwards before we can head back to get you because the teenagers wrecked the bus with booze and garbage. So I was late trying to get into town and it just got worse leaving. I went 7 hours with no break trying to stay on time but no use. So there is not enough drivers or buses or any of that to accomodate fireworks when we can only drive the max of 13 hours in a day! Which I did! Next time start earlier in the day to get downtown. I was killing myself to help you all get downtown just to be greeted by angry people that my bus was full. Apparantly it is my fault the bus is full too. Plus not many drivers will volunteer do drive for the fireworks due the the drunken and disorderlly people on our buses.The 351's have a extrememly bad rep due to the drunken teenagers who wreck the bus and wreak havac on our buses.Do you know where your children are and what they are doing?
we don't know what happens to other buses when we drive our own route like the 601. No one tells us. 601's also do 351's , 491's and more so they are very intermixed.
ozzie said that a 351 was a no show and two 601's rolled by and the second one empty. Well if that 601 got his route changed for you and went and did a 351, he would then either be a no show for a 351 later or a 601 later or whatever he was scheduled to do. There is really nothing we can do as drivers for you. We are given a route schedule to drive for . We are supposed to drive the speed limit for you and drive safely to your destination. If there isn't enough time to do that route due to time constrictions, delays on the bus for all sort of things including not having your fare ready even though you stood at the bus stop apparantly for an hour waiting for me with about 10 other people and didn't bother asking them what the fare was or having it ready. Every delay including traffic, walkers, wheelchairs, people putting coins in one at a time when they are paying with dimes and nickels. Shall I go on. We get just as frusterated as you with being late and it is not out fault. I have been told to drive faster by some of you because the other driver goes faster. One day a bad accident will occur and then your statement will be . Well the driver was driving so fast and dangerous.
For those of you who still can't understand why a bus is late I think you need to get your head screwed on tighter or you are just oblivious. Traffic has got worse and worse over the years and still the same running times. THink of it like a snowball. If a bus is given one hour to get to its destination and is late. Well there will be more people at those bus stops because they are now waiting for the next bus after that one. But low and behold the one earlier shows up and takes longer to load. Now the driver is not a robot as some of you may believe and may need to stop to use the washroom or eat something or Just need to get away from the constant bitching that you are late. Now to fix the problem of being late we can get a short turn which will make a bus missing for you at that time but make the driver back on time for later in his or her route schedule. So which do you prefer a late bus or a no show. Think about this when you complain to the driver. The more complaints and we will get short turned to avoid this. I realize it is an inconvenience to miss connections but no where on our instructions does it say to speed to meet a certain bus. It is up to you to take an earlier bus to allow a connection. One really nice guy told me to not pick anyone up or drop anyone else up because he had to get to work in cresent beach. Now isn't that a caring person. Some of you are really nice out there and need to educate the jerks . I am doing the speed limit and not doing 120 to get you downtown faster. IT is unsafe and your driver should not be doing it either.
People ask what happened to the bus in front of you? How bout you tell me where all your friends are at that exact moment and what are they doing. Give us a break. We drive our route and only our set routes. We don't know what has happened to the bus in front of us. Control wouldn't tell us even if they wanted to. Soon all buses will have new radio systems and they are connected to the satellite so maybe if you call customer service they can tell you. :>) Plus the new systems will call out all the streets and the drivers can't turn it off . Only turn it down. Also if it annoys you that you can't get through to customer service you might ask some people around you to stop calling. I have been told by some people in customer service that people complain about the buses being 2 minutes late. Note to you all. 2 minutes could just be a person counting their money at the farebox.. Now multiply by any other delay and voila your bus is more than 2 minutes it could be 20 minutes on a half hour service. Some traffic delays just kill the schedule and can hamper any day.
I just wanted to say I have met some really nice people in whiterock while driving the bus but I can't drive it all the time. It is killing me. They don't give us enough time to do the trip and in order to keep it on time many of us go the whole shift with nothing more than 5 minutes at the end of the line to use the washroom. So if I am late i would appreciate not such angry passengars. I understand that is sucks to have a late bus or missing bus but some of us need to have a rest . One day they will loose me due to the lack of breaks but then you will be short a driver. I wish translink would look at the 601's and 351's and give us a break!
I would like to thank the bus drivers that actually do show up and stop for me. There have been a few that just keep driving if I am not standing close enough to the road. Just to let you guys know, when the bus pulls up, it sends alot of debris, snow, mud and whatever else there is stuck on the tires into my face! I am constantly picking sand out of my eyes and teeth. I also have a fear of the bus hitting me if I stand too close, so I would appreciate it if the drivers would stop for me if I am standing at the bustop.
It would be nice to have a sign that can notify us that our bus is running late (or not coming at all) just like the 99 B-line. The B-line comes every few minutes... the 351 doesnt. Sometimes I get off work late and at that time of night the bus only comes once an hour. When its snowing or raining and there has been an accident I would like to know when it is coming... if at all. There have been many times where I would have enough faith to wait over 2 hours for a bus to come by in the freezing cold weather. It is especially uncomfortable with transients walking around begging for change or creepy men trying to pick me up. Last year one bus didnt show up at a certain time for weeks until I called in to complain (and I doubt this incident was due to traffic). I heard that this happened a year earlier for over a month as well! It would be nice to know the approximate time the bus is expected to arrive so that I can wait somewhere warm and safe. It would be a shame if someone were to be abducted or died of exposure at the bus stop due to translinks lack of consideration.
If you don't want to stand too close to the curb I suggest you waving to the driver holding your pass or something to indicate you want the bus. Our schedules don't give us time to mind read and I have pulled into stops thinking someone wants the bus and they stand there and say nothing. Please don't shake your hand too much cause this can indicate that you don't want it. I simple hand in the air will do. I drive the 351 during the week and in a whole day I am lucky to get a 15 minute break because we are busy trying to keep it on time but there is a point where we have to take a break or you pay the price. Traffic delays even two hours before the time you are to pick up the bus can delay the bus continualy . So when you see the bus you think traffic couldn't have delayed us but think again.
OH by the way most bus stop shelters are provided by the city not translink. For example I live in Delta and they are provided by the city so you might want to call the city to get better bus shelters.
To all the passengars waiting in the freezing cold today and the horrible down pour of rain ... I would like to apologize now and to let you know that your buses will probably be late today. Once it rains or there is any amount of traffic the buses can and will be late. I am sorry for this and would like you to know that we are doing are best. I have a piece of work that only allows maybe a 15 minute break in the whole day. (If I am on time ) Please no more angry comments to the drivers. We are doing our best.
ozzie said the 7pm was a no show last night. It actually leaves at 6:56 if it is on time. Just for the record. That bus starts as a 351 to cresent beach with 5 minutes to use the restroom at the end. 351 to vancouver with no time at the end to turn into the 602, then does a 601 vancouver and then arrives to do your 351 at 6:56. Most of the time I hardly get a break. I do my best to keep it on time but when traffic snarls happen I can't do much. I am sorry for the delays but not much can be done.
On really bad days I suggest taking a bus downtown to get on at either burrard station or at georgia. Then you would be guaranteed a seat.
I would like to thank the passengar who commented on why I even bothered to show. I am sorry I was 30 minutes late but my last route as a 602 was snarled in traffic which made me late for the 601 which in turn made me even more late for my 351. I tried to get it fixed before I did my 351 but was told to keep running late.
A day in a life of a bus driver. It is the new sheet starting dec 24 and I will no longer be driving the 351/601/602 etc. I chose to do something else. Why/? exhausted ! I have gone a whole shift with no more than a 10-15 minute break in the whole day. I keep going without a break because I try desperately to keep it on time for you guys. I have come to understand that even if I was to be chronically late it won't be fixed. Example. I was over 40 minutes late because of the snow. Yes snow to some of you who don't think this should affect our route it does. We have to drive slower and sometimes we even get stuck in bus stops. I was not given a short turn because they wanted to keep me going . Well by the time I got to the 351 route again I was over an hour late. Then after driving for 7 hours I had to take a break to eat before I passed out. Would love to thank the guy who yelled at me at burrard station to just get going. Now don't get me started when the tunnel gets closed and we have to take the alex fraser. Even one traffic jam at the tunnel at 2pm will affect service the whole day. Especially when we don't get short turned. So if at 8pm we show up late and say well traffic kept us and you see no traffic.... Could have been earlier and it hasn't been fixed yet. Crazy yes but the routes are designed to accomadate us if we were flying above the traffic not with it. I just have to say that some of you I will miss and some of you have been really understanding . I wish all of you were like that but same goes for bus drivers. Sometimes we have bad days, especially when we get yelled at every stop enquiring why we are late.
Hoo-ray!
Translink is contemplating keeping a bus service to/from Vancouver to South Surrey/White Rock!
Is there a hitch?
You bet!
The service would be on a 'reserved seat' basis and would cost an estimated $8.25 each direction.
How in the hell are our seniors going to be able to afford $16.50 to go to and get back from Vancouver?
If this blog is not dead, it's time to rise up again and rattle the chains of those in power.
Well seniors would ride it to the skytrain if they run a regular one. The reserved seat could be for commuters for work? Where did you hear about this? I want to go look.
currently it takes about one hour from Richmond centre to the waterfront station. The new sky train in Richmond says that trip will take 30 minutes. 1/2 the time . So if you are coming from whiterock it is safe to say your trip downtown will be much faster. yes you will have to get out of the bus but other communities have had to do the same.. Take a bus to the skytrain and transfer.. If this doesn't work for you...... You do have options.... There is car pool companies to put your name into..etc.. Change is hard. But is good.
Yes it sucks to be left behind because the bus is full. Yes it sucks when the bus is a no show even though it is still out there but hasn't got to your route yet.
Yes it sucks that changes are going to happen soon but try and think of it this way. SKYTRAIN is a computer, skytrain doesn't encounter traffic. Skytrain will get you there faster.. People bitch that they can't get to their destination quicker. Then don't complain about the skytrain. It will get you there faster. Yes you will have to get out of your seats. Yes you will have to transfer but in the end it will be faster. You can't expect the company to change it for the better and then you want it back to the old way.The same people that complained about the buses, will complain about this change too. Other outside cities have buses that take them to the skytrain and so will your city.
Here is a comment for you guys that complain it costs $5.00 to go to Vancouver. Well actually it doesn't. If you buy a book of 10 , three zone bus tickets you actually pay $3.80 to go to vancouver. So even if you ride the bus once a week . It pays to keep that in your wallet.
better yet buy a day pass if you don't ride a bus often. Then you don't have to worry about it expiring
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